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Old 12-01-2013, 01:29 PM   #55
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: It Aint Necessarily So: Rendez-vous with Adventure by Ellis Amdur

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
That's an argument with the purpose of the delivery system, IMO, and not with the IP-delivery system combination that I'm talking about.

Frankly, any delivery system is just fine, if it takes you where you want to go - but that won't be the same place for many people.

Kyudo, for example, works just fine as a delivery system for IP skills, and many people are quite happy training in it for their entire lives. OTOH, most people would find that delivery system useless in real-life practical applications and are happy to admit it.

Best,

Chris
I agree....if it takes you to where you want to go. My position or thesis is that Aikido as a delivery system is a confused one. That is, it purports to be a marital art, to deliver martial skill, yet, in many experiences it fails to do that. Okay, some may offer a counter argument that it is NOT about martial skill, but a delivery mechanism for IS/IT skills, I get that, but a survey of the masses would most likely say it is a martial art.

Kyudo I think is a better example, as it is a concentrated practice and provides the person immediate feedback in the form of arrows hitting a target.

Judo is a good system as it also provides feedback.

In both these cases, IP/IT practice complement or are contributory. In the case of Aikido, I am not so sure it does this. I believe it is a confused delivery system for most. Aikido seems to be a concentrated practice to transmit IP/IT skills as a primary practice whereas, Judo and Kyudo it is a secondary or supporting practice. You have an environment which offers you an "honest" measure of your training.

One might offer as a counter that the various "Ki test" such as push hands, pushing on Jo staffs, etc offer an honest measure of training. I say no. IMO those things are fine for creating a feedback environment to improve your IS/IT skills, but it is a carefully controlled feedback process and does not equate to an highly adaptive or constantly changing condition environment that something like Kyudo or Judo would represent. You must be able to make use of your training in an alive situation of some sort.

I think in order to claim success, the ultimate delivery system must be integrative. it must allow you to do something else. Maybe lifting boxes at work, shooting arrows, throwing in a tournament, olympic weightlifting etc.

However, when you take a integrative perspective, the algebra changes. IS/IT skills take a level of priority. That is, "How much time or effort do I spend on this stuff?" What are the gains and how does it ultimately cause me to be better at "X"?

Chris, I suspect we are saying the same thing maybe? I don't support though that ANY delivery system will do. I think there are MANY that do, but there are some that do not contribute much as the practice becomes to diluted or unfocused to really result in any integration into "real life".

I think this is true of many practices such as Aikido and Tai Chi.

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