Mark Murray wrote:
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For those looking to put aiki back into aikido, I think we're to a point that, at times, we have to become a bit exclusionary. I mean look at the history. We've had people cross train in different aikido schools, cross train in different arts, etc. And still the aikido world lacks aiki. At this point in time, we have to be diligent in our efforts.
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At the sake of what? friends, family, martial ability, functionality, sanity? I train with a few folks in Aikido that are very interested in "putting the aiki back in aiki", that said, we are not throwing the baby out with the bath water either. That was my only point. I don't believe devisiveness gets us anywhere. Maybe exclusionary is not the best word?
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And it's my opinion that you won't find them in BJJ or GJJ or judo. I don't believe that there is IP/aiki in the BJJ world ... but I'm always open to the possibility that there might be one or two who could have learned it somewhere. However, that's a possibility, not a probability. ***
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Again, I think you missed the whole logic point of what this was orignially stated. No one, ever stated that BJJ randori and waza that is commonly done is the best way to study this stuff, and just like every other martial art, you have the mainstream that is concerned with a very fundamental and basic practice.
However, if you pay attention to what Rickson does, says, and is...you will see that there is alot more than what is out there that you could include. Ever think that maybe Rickson thinks like you? Ever think that maybe he wants to "put aiki in BJJ". Are you familar with how he trains? Are you familiar with every practicioner? Everyone who studies BJJ?
It is no different than Aikido, Tai Chi, or any other practice.
All I can say is I lay hands on guys like Rickson (whom I haven't), Saulo and Xande Riberiro, who I have and others and feel what they are doing and I say..."hey I want that too". They steer me to develop baseline skills through Ginastica Natural, Yoga and other things. hmmm. Lots of the same advice, same form, same type of conditioning that I see in say...Ark's practice, albeit slightly different.
All I can say is I look at Rickson at 50 years old and say...hey I wanna be like him. Wow.
I see others out there...hmmmm not so much.
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And as the Gracies (and others) have proven, you don't need IP/aiki to be martial, effective, good, etc. High level jujutsu isn't to be dismissed. It can be very effective, soft, flowing, centered, and structured. But it is completely different from the aiki versions of those qualities.
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How is it different? what is different about it? what does Aiki do for you that is different?
No you don't need aiki to be effective, but again..what is it that you are trying to do with all this accumulated training?
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As a side note here, we can look to the Judo world where most in the Kodokan in Kano's time lacked IP/aiki. More to the point, those few from the Kodokan who went out into the world and started mixing it up with other people most likely did not have IP/aiki. And if they didn't have it, then the people they taught most likely didn't have it. But, there were singular individuals at the Kodokan who had exemplary skills, such as Mifune. However, Mifune was a rarity.
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So how is the fact that they had a few people such as Mifune any different than say....aikido, tai chi...or anything else? I think it is pretty well established that very few people actually pick this stuff up, can teach it, and can integrate it. In any given system worth it's weight in gold...I think this statisitic pretty much holds true...very few.
I wrote:
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Sure we get mad and frustrated with each other from time to time, I think that is natural. That said, I personally, have no problems training with anyone here on aikiweb, even those I have disagreements with, because in the bigger scheme of things, I think that the differences are petty and minor and natural to go through....that is, if the other person can let go of this crap and train honestly without the ego crap.
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I still stand by this, so if you can set this aside, I can and I would welcome the opportunity to train any time.