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Old 05-21-2006, 09:12 PM   #317
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
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Re: The "Jo Trick" and Similar Exercises

Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
This sounds a lot like deflection to me. I'm assuming you want to make a distinction here (for good reason I'm guessing), so I'm wondering why you would say that uke's force has remained the same (i.e. "you cannot 'redirect' or 'alter' a force going in one direction to another") when it fact it has been deflected, manipulated, and redirected (i.e. back and upward from straight forward).
There's a distinction in physics, David. I cannot "alter" the incoming force itself; it is what it is. I can do vector addition to the force to change the resultant ("deflection" would be one of those ways of addition), but I cannot alter his original force (like making it into a vertical force when it was a horizontal force). All I can do is add or subtract. It seems like a convoluted distinction, but you have to be accurate when you describe forces. The forces Uke gives are the forces he gives; I "aiki" by adding to his forces, not by "changing" them... because they are what they are.
Quote:
Right now, it seems that you are saying it can be redirected and/or altered, etc., but that from uke's subjective point of view it is not. As you can imagine, I was not trying to speak about uke's subjective point of view, since I didn't think that Paul was either. I was trying to speak from the point of view of uke's force being, for example, bounced back and upward (i.e. altered).
We're getting mired in semantics, David. If you understand how to manipulation of your own forces is done, this would be a good time to drop the semantics and contribute in that way.
Quote:
If you get a chance, and wouldn't mind too much, perhaps you can point out why it is not in one's interest (in terms of understanding) to say that uke's force can be altered but that it is in one's interest to say that uke's force can be bounced back and upward. I'm imagining your experience with teaching this stuff has led you one way and not another and that this is behind your misgivings concerning the words "alter" and/or "redirect."
You cannot "alter" Uke's force because it is what it is; you can only do vector addition to it. That's all I mean. The three-dimensional components of the original force do not disappear.

Maybe this video clip I showed before will help in the visualization. Uke pushes; Nage adds to the push in a simple way and has the "internal strength" to add a bit more oomph to it. In no way is Uke's force from Uke "altered"... it is responded to with vector addition because Nage has the ability to generate forces in the direction he chooses from the part of the body he chooses. I hope that makes it clear what I meant, despite the semantics.

Regards,

Mike
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