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Katherine Derbyshire wrote:
Sorry if I seem to be picking on you, Demetrio. What I'm getting at is that most of these "does aikido work" threads include a lot of unspoken assumptions. Not only the obvious -- what does it mean for aikido to "work?" -- but also assumptions about "realism" and about the goals of budo training. It's not at all clear to me that pursuit of "martial effectiveness" necessarily has much to do with any of the other goals of budo.
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Well, I think achieving martial efectiveness is one of the effects of technologies of the self that run under the classification of "budo". If there is not a substantial increase in the martial efectiveness, something is not going right. Like if you do tea ceremony but the tea tastes awfully; even if tea ceremony is not only about making tea, if the result is vomitive, you tell me...
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As I previously noted, neither professional fighters nor successful street fighters are generally known for their excellence as human beings.
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I don't know how excellence in this field can be objectively measured.
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In fact, you could argue that "success" in "real fights" requires a level of viciousness that's not really compatible with life in civilized society. (See also the high level of post-traumatic stress and similar disorders in soldiers and other people who've actually had to do significant amounts of "real fighting.")
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Of course there are risks (and PTSD is a completely different issue) but be sure the ones who end in a plastic bag because their lack of success in real fights (i.e. legit self defense situations) are not the most productive members of society. Dead people don't work, don't raise children, don't do science and usually (Haiti doesn't count) are not pillars of their community.
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Which is not to say that "tough training" isn't valuable, just that I think it's important to be clear about exactly what one is trying to achieve, and what the tradeoffs are.
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Of course, as long one is not claiming having something he lacks. If someone is not interested in martial skills so be it, the same if someone is not interested in becoming the floating bridge or channeling kami skills.
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Remember that the most "martially effective" samurai were brutal killers first, and gentlemen and philosophers only after they had eradicated their enemies
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I'd rather have prefered you had not brough the romanticised "martially effective" samurai.
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He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. -- Nietzsche
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Then let's not take risks. Let the monsters have free reign.