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Old 11-08-2007, 06:22 PM   #44
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
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Re: Ki and Remaining Grounded

[quote=Matthew Bowen;193552]
I'm not claiming that I know the ultimate truth of everything, just that ki, when talked about as a physical energy force, does not exist. It'd be fairly awesome if it did, but since it doesn't, let's not delude ourselves.[/QUOTE}

Just a few thoughs
Dark energy and dark matter make up approximately 90+% of the known universe. Without it, the whole damn shooting match doesn't work in the way our intellects can understand. It is there, but we have as yet, not been able to quantify it by measuring instruments. This matter/energy has to have a profound effect on the remaining few percent that we and ali we can percieve make up.
Is Ki somehow a description of the early searchers understanding of some underlying enrgy that pervades all things? My guess is that those past martial arts / budo men intrinsically understood, through years of practice, some underlying energy that pervades everthying.

Religous folk believe that there is a god that is 'in everything'. Maybe the sages and see'ers did find a way of tapping into 'that which is in everything.'?

I'm not saying that ki = dark matter / dark energy,but I don't discount the possibility. Holding the known universe in place is pretty awesome in my book.

Quote:
Hi Mark. I practice aikido for three main reasons: physical development, social development and intellectual development. I don't feel I'm being hypocritical by practicing aikido and not believing in invisible, undetectable-by-science energy forces that bind the universe together, and in order to get the most out of my training, I don't feel I have to manipulate this invisible "force". I train hard, keeping my feet grounded firmly in the planes of reality.
Good for you Matthew,

I agree that aikido provides these things, however, physical developement can be found in many places, social too, and I would have thought, that the dojo is not the best place for intellectual growth either Aikido provides many things on many levels to many people, the three that you mention and more, once the lower levels are mastered you move on, looking for the 'real' essence of the art.

My own experience leads me to agree with something that Erik said:
Quote:
In broad strokes the first is Tohei's/Ki Society approach. The second is in more line with that of Yoshinkan, and also related to Aunkai and others in the current "internal arts" vogue. The last is, in various degrees of difference across a spectrum, that of more generic Aikikai, and under that, specifically of Saotome and Saito. I trained primarily the third way. I have no doubt that properly done, any of them can be effective, and that poorly done all of them are equally ineffective. The question is more one of convenience and fit to the needs of a given student
I reckon that to do 'good' aikido, the body mechanics, posture and muscle 'condition have to be 'just right' Erik put it into his customary detailed explanation of precicely how they work. The mind must be in complete accord with the body, with relaxed focus extended out into the world. Without the correct mental posture, the 'non - resistant' art of aikido is hard to make progress in. Timing is everything. And for me the terms ki/mind/feeling are all interchangable.
Most of us students struggle for many years practicing aikido but not doing aikido. We are too busy thinking about the technique, where our hands are, where our feet are, trying to protect ourselves, trying to maintain our balance and relxation in ever more dynamic situations. This is normal, and there are no real shortcuts, you just have to go through it, right guys? The top aikidoka from both ki and non ki traditions can do it, the rest are trying to learn what they do.

One of the teachers that I go to,hardly ever uses the term 'ki' he uses the term 'feeling'. Another uses the term often. They both can do what I feel is 'good' aikido. The ony way I have to measure that subjectively is that, with many of the people I practice with, I can 'stop' their technique by finding the 'holes' by very focussed non resistant ukemi. With my teachers I can't 'yet'

Non of this proves that 'ki' exists, but for many aikidoka from O Sensei on down, acting 'as if' it is there, affected their practice on many levels.

Quote:
I'd very much be interested in witnessing a true manifestation of these forces, but until I do, I'll remain skeptical - skeptical until I see some evidence (not a youtube video).
I'm looking forward to it! See you on the mat.
Peace.
Nothing wrong with being sceptical - I say the same thing about God, but that doesn't mean that he/she doesn't exist

regards,

Mark

Last edited by Mark Freeman : 11-08-2007 at 06:36 PM.

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