Thread: Equitable?
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Old 03-31-2005, 10:50 AM   #350
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
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Re: Equitable?

Quote:
Ruth McWilliam wrote:
Actually, what I wrote was based upon a previous post or two of yours where you mentioned that you'd been frustrated at another dojo by problems that occurred there with women, politics, and (as you put it) BS.

My last reply to you was in response to the 'big picture' rather than to that specific post of yours.
That's a completely disingenuous statement, since you quoted the one I just mentioned, isn't it? You erred, then, but you're dodging the admission.
Quote:
To go deeper, I get the impression that you feel you were unfairly treated at the expense of some female students, which has left you feeling somewhat bitter in this regard. Therefore, I would submit that you are hardly in a position to comment objectively on this thread.
You "get the impression" about what I feel? Have you ever heard of the use of logic in debate?

I wasn't "unfairly treated", I was remarking about something that many people have seen in many Aikido dojo's and dojo's in other martial arts... the study of martial arts is disrupted in many dojo's by the insistent injection of extraneous matters by females and some males who are not really there for the focused study of martial arts. In ANY non-serious dojo, whether females are there are not, the quality of study deteriorates. Introducing off-topic worries into martial arts is analogous to many of the conversations on M.A. lists.... the ones who aren't really serious will do their best to discuss any issue but the one which they aren't very knowledgeable in, i.e., martial arts. It's how people are. You and a few others would rather talk about women's issues than nuts and bolts martial arts, as is obvious by your posts.
Quote:
Further, although you claim to be all for treating everyone equally in some of your posts, you also seem to harbor one or two prejudices which come across clearly in other of your posts. It comes across as confused at best, and insincere at worst.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and suggesting that perhaps you step back and take a look at how your previous experiences have distorted your viewpoint on this subject, rather than hiding behind a facade of pernickety point-scoring.
Don't "give" me anything, Ruth, particularly in regard to your perceptions about equality, the views I should have to pass your criteria, etc. I treat you just like a man... you're insulting and I don't give you a pass "because you're a woman", as you'd like. Go back and read the posts by Sunny Liberti, Mary, and others... if they were men, someone in real martial arts would have taken them outside and knocked them flat. But you're not calling for equal treatment, really, are you? You want "special consideration" for women and their "needs", not "equal treatment".

Go back and read the posts in this thread by a select few of the women.... it's a call for "special treatment allowing for women's needs" and it falsely couched in "we want to be treated equally" terms. There are calls for "understanding", but really they are calls for "you better conform to our view of women and their needs". There is an insistence that "these worries about women and their needs is a valid part of "martial arts". It's all BS that has nothing to do with martial arts and all about "look at me, look at me, look at me, I'm a woman". As a valid martial arts topic, it doesn't fly, just as a number of the martial artists have pointed out already.

So don't arrogantly "give me the benefit of the doubt"...instead, "show" me that you know something about martial arts and that you're not just one of the parasites that does not-too-hard and not-too-effective "martial arts" as part of their social life. That's when you'll get my respect, not when you try to browbeat me into the mold of how you "get the impression" I should "feel". You're making the exact case of why I think a lot of women and also a lot of men don't belong in martial arts dojos... they're not really there for the martial arts so they lower the practice standards. How's that for equality???.... *anyone* not seriously focused on martial arts should quit pretending that they're interested in effective martial arts, male or female.

Mike Sigman
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