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Old 03-30-2005, 07:14 PM   #208
Man of Aiki
Dojo: Aikido By The Bay
Location: Portland Texas
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 45
Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Joeysola saw two aikido guys lose fights in the UFC? And from this he assumes it won't work in a real fight?

Combat sports and real fighting are not the same thing.

I once looked into competing in a local NHB event and discovered that about half the Aikido techs. I know would be considered illegal. Sankyo, for instance, with it's manipulation of the hand would be illegal in almost all NHB events, including UFC. Same with Nikkyo.

Secondly, you fight like you train. Many Aikido schools do not train in a manner in which uke attacks nage balls to the wall, full force and full speed and full intent for more than 10 or 15 seconds.

I did see one of the fights that JoeySola alludes to, the one in which the black Aididokist was quickly dispatched. From what I saw of him, I sincerely doubt this Aikidoka was even Dan level. He looked to be about a 2nd or 3rd Kyu.

Apparently, he had never trained to deal with somebody like the slim, smaller grappler that faced him, who simply charged him, shot in low, wrapped up his legs, took him down, got on top and pounded him five or six times on the back of the head until he tapped out.

Some Aikido schools put a lot of emphasis on teaching their students to counter leg shoots and low tackles and some don't. I've seen some schools where they don't even teach students to deal with anything other than a simple low front kick.

And I've seen some that teach student's to deal with front kicks, side kicks, spinning kicks, low kicks, high kicks, etc.

Different school emphasize different things.

But to characterize an entire art as 'not working' in a 'real fight' because you watched a sport fight where a low-level student was quickly overwhelmed makes no sense. As far as I can tell, while some very high ranked wrestlers and Judo and Juijitsu students have competed in NHB, there is no record of a 3rd or 4th Dan Aikido student appearing in one of these things.

That could be for two reasons:

Aikido's philosophy discourages competition.

And Aikido cannot safely be used full force on an untrained person without risk of serious injury.Aikido involves full force throws and manipulation of joints that are dangerous and can easily kill or maim if the technique is received incorrectly.

By that, I mean even if a highly ranked Aikdioka compteted in one of these sporting events, and ended up facing a highly ranked wrestler, the wrestler still has no training on how to take an irimi-nage fall safely. He does not know how to take a kotegaeshi throw safely. If he rushes the Aikidoka and gets thrown with a powerful kokyu nage breath throw, there is no guarantee he will land safely.

Over half of the time in the first year or so of Aikdio training involves just learning to take the techniques safely. Do you realize how many serious injuries there would be in Aikido schools across this country if the first time a student stepped on the mat, even one with kickboxing, muay thai, or juijitsu experience, and the instructor had him attack at full speed, full force, and threw him full speed and full force?

So an Aikidoka competing in a NHB event would realize right away that he cannot apply Aikdio full force to his untrained opponent. So many throws he can do are of only limited value.

What's left? Most throws aren't a good idea, what's left? Well, the control holds! Joint locks! Only the Aikidoka remembers he can't use any finger grabs or joint manipulations that involve bending or twisting the hand. So if the opponent rushes him, he can't simply reach out and bend some fingers back and take the opponent to his knees and then pin him.

Now if the Aikidoka simply doesn't care about the safety or the well-being of his opponent, he could use a full force Irimi- Nage or a Shiho-Nage on his opponent. The Aikidoka could think, hey, if he lands on his head or breaks his leg, that's his problem! But by the time a student reaches 3rd or 4th Dan level, is he going to be the kind of person that doesn't care about his opponent? I think not.

The above helps to explain why I think no advanced Aikido student has ever appeared in a NHB event. Not to say that one never will. But if one ever does, I'm sure he will be well aware of the limitations he faces.

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