Thread: Equitable?
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Old 03-05-2005, 06:10 PM   #127
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Equitable?

Anne Marie Giri wrote:
Start with Page One and Read...Most of the initial responders just jumped down Mary's back for her questions, they started with "why not start your own aikido expo" to your "what does gender have to do with aikido" and it degraded on down to there. It wasn't just one response, but the volume of them. If you read further, I noticed that Mary attempted to defend herself, but deleted them out of frustration. Obviously she got fed up and left. Actually, I know she did. And she has since thanked me for speaking up. No one was calling her names like in a true flame war, but the posts responding to hers very much dismissed her questions, skipping any real dialog. No one took the effort to understand her perspective, her view or reasoning for asking what she did. Rather they all just jumped to conclusions--mainly that she was out to bash Stanley Pranin and the AikiExpo. In fact, she was attempting to create a dialog about gender disparity in aikido.
Hmmmmmm. I don't think you did Mary a favor by mentioning her bailing out. Mary started a dialogue and she got various ideas in reply; none of them were particularly harsh and most of all none of them were personal attacks directed at her. People reacted to her idea. Some agreed and some disagreed. You appear to to want to take disagreement with Mary's or your ideas as some sort of personal attack... or at least to portray it as such.(snip some subjective and histrionic calls about what is "hostile")
I wish I could point you to the specific case cites of U.S. cases on employment discrimination. They do exist and I'm not pulling them from out of thin air. Basically, the law directs courts to allow for actual recruitment of say women or minorities (which ever group that was being discriminated agains) if a pattern and practice of discrimination has been proven in court. The institution (governent office, business affecting commerce) is required to hire "x" many persons of the specific category to make up for past wrongs. It's a legal doctrine. I don't have time to teach you employment discrimination law. Yes, I'm an attorney.
So show me in case law the quotas you asserted. There are no required quotas that I know of.
(snip widely scattered remarks). Have you ever trained at Florida Aikikai? Quite a few in my dojo profess to put the "harm back in harmony". And, don't make the mistake of calling Penny a "flower" either. We do tumble around a lot, at least half the class, it's call U-K-E-M-I, and taking hard breakfalls is pretty darn rough to me so are some of my training partners. They don't let me get away with anything, and they help me throw their 6'2", 220 pound bodies to the mat.

Aikido is that easy for you? Do you just sit in class and meditate? Do you not take ukemi? seriously? You tap out early and not sweat? Seriously? Sounds like you train differently at your dojo. Not everyone has the same experience you know.
Is it necessary for you to speculate out loud about me personally? I'm sure that if I came to your dojo and offered you my wrist you would work it out vigorously and try to cause me pain if I didn't cooperate. Sweat beads my brow with just the thought of the agony! How's that? Have you ever been "rough and tumble" enough to be in a real fight, though?
Sure you can say what you want, but so can I, thus is the nature of the internet. I never said you couldn't post, but I will speak up with I think someone is inappropriately being attacked.
Fine. We're in agreement. My point was that wailing "hostile" if you're really understanding of what a dialogue is seems contradictory. Perhaps if you simply counter someone's point, as in friendly debate?
I'm just pointing out that, yes, you and others, were being insensitive to a member of this board and such insensitivity is an example of how some women are treated in some dojos. I hope you don't really treat women like this in your dojo. I certainly wouldn't train there if you do.
Please... you're being insensitive and I don't know whether to vomit or to faint. Wait... someone else already said that. You probably wouldn't like to train with me, Anne Marie.... sadly, I'm not very much into cooperative martial training, but I tend to be friendly and I'll give you the first Tsuki.
The only kind of action controlled in my dojo is overt acts like groping of breasts. Is that really acceptable in your dojo? Are you saying that such things should not be prohibited? Are you saying that a female student should not feel free to talk to her sensei about any potential problems on the mat? I really, really hope not.
It's pretty childish to pretend I said or implied anything of the sort. Regardless, the point is that people disagreeing with you or Mary are not "hostile" ... while your point MAY be the more valid, dragging it to the personal level when people disagree with you is unwarranted. But as you said, it's the internet and you get to see all kinds of characters and hear all sorts of views.


Mike Sigman
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