Dave Organ wrote:
Hi again, Larry.
Great response and summary - I was wondering if one of us should put it up on the mailing list we both share - it'd be interesting to see what those
folks say about it as well.
Since it was that mailing list that inspired this thread, I think that there was nothing that they didn't say there that was not said here in some form. As far as my post goes, I merely summarised their views, so I'm not sure if playing back what they already know would make much sense. Unless I missed something regarding exactly what you wanted me to post on the other list.
Listmom is generally busy without superfluous posts imho.
As far as the 8th Dan (and comparative level) being the only ones able to redirect the punch goes, I am trying really hard to see if I am missing something that you guys are detecting as regards that first punch in the video. To be quite honest as far as speed, power and intent goes, that beginning punch is not very different to how I attack my higher Kyu graded students with a round/sucker punch (in fact the ones we use allow for much smaller arc than in the video so you have a very short interval in which to detect and respond before being hit), and I'm outweighed by the Big Guy in the video by about 50 or so pounds. The only difference may be that they know it's coming most times in my class, but this is not always the case and most tend to handle things pretty well even when caught unexpected by entering deeply inside the arc of the punch (towards the shoulder of the other hand), and striking the side of the neck while turning and dropping one's weight sharply and holding onto the punching hand and head (without stopping the momentum) to overextend the attacker's balance, bringing the arc of the punch (and the rest of him) straight towards the floor as you come out of the turn. It's a great way of getting out of the corner as well imho by using the turn to help you get behind thae attacker and then out the door. Of course I do not expect the person in the video to do this, but I'm just showing that this basic move is something practiced well before 8th Dan in many dojos (aiki nage is it called by some??). But of course there are other more instinctive and reflexive/reactive aspects that come into play other than the mere technique that are equally important.
We also sometimes operate from the range that the punch occurred in the video as well (in fact it's the best range for that particular response since you have minimal distance to cover in order to get inside since you are already in the hole). But maybe I am missing something that you guys are seeing. There are a few Aikido folks I know from our system that I am sure
can handle that punch with a redirection or pre-emptive strike/throw like Shomen Ate and they fall within the 2nd to 4th Dan category. But it is possible that I am missing something, but if not, like I said earlier, it depends on the reason and focus of one's training.
Great posts folks. I like George's response too.