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Old 02-15-2005, 12:46 PM   #72
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
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Re: Competition in Aikido

Okay, well that's pretty much the point of "going out on a limb and expressing my prejudicies" to get others to open up an discuss theirs.

Paul - You say no one is getting rich from aikido competitions. I assume the intended point was that money from winning would be the only reason for someone to never be willing to sacrifice effecacy for a period to develop well past the musciling anything stages. I disagree that money is the only reason. You also asked the fair question of why would a competitor have a different mindset/goal than I have. I'd say 'ego' is a more reasonable thing to consider as a answer to both issues you brought up. I'd imagine that's why someone claimed competing it addictive (which I can see as a function of ego, but nothing more.) I also asked for thoughts about what I might be missing from my observation and resulting opinions about competition-orientated practice (it was the last line of my post that you quoted).

Ron, thanks. While agree that Yann might have intended the meaning you suggest, I think I summed up the message he send out in a fair way.

Phil, correct me if I am misunderstanding but didn't you cite two people who trained with Osensei in an overall non-competitive way as masters who went on to train people in a competitive way? There might be merit to your post but I don't see it yet. If they produced someone wonderful exclusively from their overall training methodology, then please cite that person - and maybe how many people of that caliber have been produced from that system. Lastly, I'm not saying the competitive model is invalid. I'm saying I have not seen evidence of anyone who has taken that route as far as those people who have trained in an overall cooperative model.

Chris, I'm sorry I communicated poorly. I agree with mostly everything you said. I intended my message to be that my ability to do technique results in my basic waza being fairly strong. I'm not terribly strong sans technique. I do know that I cheat with using my arm strength here and there and I know because I work out with VERY strong sempai who shut me down - in a collaborative manner - when they catch me cheating. I don't feel that my over-all cooperative training/learning model is limited as their is quite a bit of testing things out in an honest and helpful way built in. I've mained that position since the start of this thead. I don't know if the people who use competition as the overall model for their training/learning are able to test things out nearly as thoroughly as I test out what I am doing. I just figured since I _can_ explain what I do, someone who trains differently should be able to explain what they do - without requiring me to have to go get the information myself as first hand knowledge. I suppose I don't feel that cooperation and collaboration is as limited as competition. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to be confused. I followed that link that Jun provided for us on this thread to the post from Peter Goldsbury about this and it seems that even Osensei felt that if Tomiki sensei called what he was doing aikido that it would _confuse_ people. Please feel free to shed as much light as you can and are willing.

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 02-15-2005 at 12:49 PM.
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