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Old 05-30-2001, 01:09 PM   #46
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 819
ah, but what if the shop owner had the only food for sale in town? or the business was the only one that sold clothing that you liked?
If the shop owner has the only food for sale in the town and then jacked the prices up so high that people couldn't afford it, it would be called price gouging. It happens and there are lawas against it. Why are there laws to regulate? Because most people are not responsible enough to control themselves so we need laws and regulations to prevent them from abusing their power.

And yes this shop owner has power over the people in that town. He has the food and they don't. The people have a "choice" to not buy the food and go hungry or to buy it. That is no choice.

If the business sold only the clothes I liked? If this was an expensive fashion boutique and their is a Target down the street that sells things at reasonable prices down the street? Now, that is their choice. It is called supply and demand -- basic economics.

But the dojo is not necessarily just a business now is it? It is more like a not- for-profit private school. Most who teach because they love to teach their art, not because he can make a profit based on supply and demand otherwise he would become a McDojo.

You can imagine power-over anytime you want to use victimhood as an excuse, but it doesn't fly when you are talking about a dojo.
You know what colleen, real victims do exist in this world. There will always be abusers if we continually blame the victims for the harm they have suffered.

Power-over exists in every aspect of life, not just the military or law enforcement. It is wrong when there are real victims. There are real victims in this dojo that anon speaks of.

I seriously suggest you re-read each and every word of anon's last post. Each situation adds up one on top of the other. It is not just one isolated incident; it is many. There is something more going on than meets the eye -- anon knows this and she wants to know what to do about it. That is whey I told her to trust her instincts. My gut says there is more than "just harmless dating" going on.

And if you don't think abuses can possibly happen in dojos just talk to the kids who are molested by their sensei, the women who are raped by them. It happens, Colleen, research it yourself. If you don't think power can be abused in a dojo, you are really kidding yourself.

Abuse exists because people don't want to admit that it can and that it does happen.

It is the people who ABUSE the power that makes things look bad for us, not the victims -- the real ones. The only thing the REAL victims do is let us know the the martial arts industry is not free of these problems. The victims can shut up, but that doesn't stop the problems from happening. It only shoves the problems under the carpet until it is so bad we are forced to deal with the rot underneath.

Every right comes with a responsibility. A person has a right to run a business any way they see fit. An person has a right to run a not-for-profit school any way the see fit. Rights are not absolute. But they are still subject to many regulations of ethical business practices. They are still subject to prosecution and complaints for wrong doing against their employees and their customers.

You are kidding me in trying to convince me that a dojo owner holds no power. A dojo owner knows that people come to him or her to learn something they don't know -- self-defense. (you know the ability to protect youself from losing your life?). The dojo owner has that knowledge and the student does not. The dojo owner also should be aware of the many reasons that people come to dojo. Some are in a bad time of their life (vulnerable) and they are coming to the dojo to help them deal with their life problems. He or she should also be aware that the young women that come there may be starry eyed and wowed by their skill. Then with his right to teach where and how he wishes he or she should not take advantage of his student's baggage.

This is what has happened in anon's situation. The sensei went after those with baggage knowing they would less likely stand up for themselves. His "power" is the ability to decide whether or not to do this.

And a few other points:

In regards to the "dating mill" I mentioned. If you re-read my post. I said this guy is using these women as a dating mill at best. Meaning, I believe that something worse is going on.


In regards to this school's highest female rank being 5th kyu. Sure a lot of people drop out and I will agree that the retention rate for women is lower. But this guy should have at least one woman ranked higher than 5th kyu. Of course this in and of itself if not a proving factor but in inclusion of all the other examples that happened in this dojo, it is rather revealing.

Anne Marie

Last edited by giriasis : 05-30-2001 at 01:12 PM.