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Old 01-03-2005, 05:15 AM   #17
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Re: Locking/pinning as pain submission...

Bryan Bateman wrote:
Hi Boon,

I`m at odds with the vice like grip . I don`t disagree that it can be very beneficial in some instances, and indeed required in others, but I think that is largely due to me not having moved well enough in the first instance. My argument being that if you grip hard on uke, it actually gives uke something to resist and fight against, the softer and lighter your touch the less he has to fight with.


For me, the pain in osae and kime waza is a byproduct, it is not required to be effective, but will be there for a lot of people . I agree that many people look to apply pain rather than look to apply the technique, which is a large part of why people struggle to apply techniques, their brain gets caught up in a vicious circle - need to apply pain - need twist hard - not working - need to apply more pain - need to twist harder - not working - need to .........

If you work on movement and kuzushi first, the technique will become easier to apply, the pain will be a result of their actions fighting to escape rather than you twisting harder.



Interestingly enough, in jujitsu, the focus is on firstly causing pain, then taking kuzushi. Without the pain, you ain't gonna get kuzushi - simply coz uke is in a position to resist. However, when they're in pain, they sure ain't gonna resist - well, it's hurting coz they're resisting

Whilst it is true that you may not always get the pain factor happening, you should try to work on getting their kuzushi at the same time.
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