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Old 12-21-2004, 02:52 AM   #8
Location: Frederick, MD
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 509
Re: Throwing Spikes?

David Olavarrķa wrote:
CLARIFICATION, there is no [B]TRUE, JAPANESE SHURIKEN, OK [/B] everything came from their main land of Asia IE: China, Mongolia, Tibet ext.
Depends on where you get your info from. I've taken as my sources folks like Hunter Armstrong, Donn Draeger, Diane and Miek Skoss, Ellis Amdur and Karl Friday, among others.

Additionally, I could refer anyone who can read Japanese to several works available in that language, among them the 'Bugei Ryuha Daijiten', a comprehensive and quite detailed listing of legitimate ryuha and lineages.

Care to share your sources for the info you've presented?

Now admittedly, much of what we know today as Japanese culture (to include the budo) have been influenced by mainland Asian cultures, but the Japanese are champions at learning a thing, integrating it and turning it into something unique.

On the whole, the influence of Chinese culture and arts, et al, on Japan has been in the form of classical texts, court behavior, to some extent, dress and to a lesser extent, the martial arts.

However, it hasn't been wholesale, and, especially in the case of the budo, mostly hasn't been done in a manner that can be historically traced with any sort of specificity.

Star shaped shuriken is TRADITIONAL IE: used by the Hattori Clan under Tokugawa'srule
Interesting, I hadn't heard this before. Source?

I never said the star-shaped ones ('shaken' is the proper name for 'em) weren't used in Japan, only that the term 'shuriken', as used in most traditional, historical, ryuha refers to a throwing spike or slender dagger-like implement.

By the way Ninjutsu traces its origins as far as [b]India and Tibet ...
Again, I'd ask you to cite sources for this information.

The legend of Daruma has been fairly thoroughly examined in several sources, and has proven to be somewhat less than it has been built up to be. However, there is an undeniable thread, albeit in places a somewhat tenuous one, of commonality in most Asian cultures and arts.

There is verifiable information about certain of the legitimate ryuha including elements of what is sort of colloqualliy known as 'ninjutsu' or more specifically, 'shinobijutsu' within their curriculum. Primarily, this was a body of knowledge within the system that was taught to those who might be required as part of their duty to do the sneak and peek missions.

Sort of like we teach our modern snake-eaters (Recondo, SpecOps, etc) slightly different tactics, strategies and methodologies than we do an E-1 11B infantryman.

and before you call me antiamerican
Wouldn't dream of it. Aside from this little rant, I know nothing of you or your history of politics. Don't much care about 'em either. It's none of my business and not the topic of this forum, unless you make it so.

In terms of the topic at hand, you're presenting information that many martial scholars and hoplologists consider to be myth, misinformation and partial truths. I'm asking for sources and offering some of my own.

don't support the troops tell me in what sector of Kabul you were wile I was eating those stinking M.R.Es
I'm afraid I'm a bit old and banged up to have made OEF or OIF, my friend. I do, however, have a handful of shiny bits and a small VA check every month -- oh yeah, and am missing a chunk of collarbone and have some interestingly fused ribs and vertebrae -- to remind me of my service some years past.

What was your unit and MOS, if I may ask? I work daily with several folks who were there (Afghanistan and Iraq, a few of 'em did both and some got sent to Iraq twice so far), and I am currently working as part of the mission to train young folks to go down south and -- hopefully -- come back alive.

then criticize my ass till kingdom come;....
I have not criticized you, or your ass for that matter. Don't care to, or care about such. What I care about is presenting factual information.

So what has your Martial Art have been doing lately................
The same thing it does every day, Pinky, trying to take over the world! (That was humor, by the way).

You seem very ... defensive.


Last edited by Chuck.Gordon : 12-21-2004 at 02:55 AM. Reason: correcting spelling etc

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