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Old 12-01-2004, 01:02 PM   #15
sunny liberti
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Dojo: Shobu Aikido
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
Re: Intent of Attack

Wow! What a range of responses...

OK. This is probably gonna be a novel. Sorry, I'll do my best to keep it concise.

Even the courts take this into consideration when determining whether a person committed murder or manslaughter. The penalties for involuntary manslaughter are often much more lenient than those for murder.
But manslaughter is still a punishable *offense*, even if the same action with intention is worse.

I might even question your heritage and the nature of your birth, but why get angry and react to an unintentional act?
LOL! 'Cause lack of intention can still do tremendous damage!

Pauliina, no offense taken, and none meant in return. But I am gonna kinda let fly. Please don't take it personally. If it was so wrong of me to butt in, what is it that you're doing here? Are you not condescending Rocky according to your own standards?

In a dojo there are sempai / kohai relationships. It's proper for a sempai to protect a kohai from perceived abuse. (If you don't, shame on you!) In a discussion forum, we are all equal. People post expecting others to pipe up, and they don't get to control what the others pipe up to say. Just like you are completely valid in expressing your opinion that I'm condescending. If they want a private discussion, then there's always e-mail.

I see that tricky culture thing bubbling to the surface again. *I* find your stated (not actual) way of handling this general situation of speaking up for another to be isolationist and kinda selfish. Who do I think I am to make the judgement as to why someone might not stand up for themselves? There are myriad nuances to everyone's pshychology, and therefore myriad reasons why someone might not defend themselves. Maybe their dog died that morning and they're just not up to the task of handling an "attack". It doesn't mean they are incompetent, or that I think so. I've personally been under attack and very grateful when someone came to my aid. It doesn't make me an imbecile b/c I had an emotional need. In a community (dojo, online, or IRL) we offer support to each other without judging whether the prospective recipient is needful or worthy, or the reasons why they might be.

Ian, awesome! That's the kind of thing I was hoping to get to. I really like what you had to say. I'm wondering if you'd be willing to indulge me further...
You addressed what is the best way to handle an attack, either intended or accidental, can you discuss your views on what makes up an attack?

The nature of my question is that we have to use the intention of an attact (whatever it is) to diffuse it. (We "throw" uke's intention.) We want to achieve working outside the duality to handle said attack, but we can't be blind to the nature of it. I understand that most here are saying that an attack only exists if there is intention. What intentions qualify?

Another dumb example (sticking to the car theme): I was in a car "accident" last year while 8 mos pregnant. Relatively minor, but the damage done to me and baby was enormous. The guy at fault certainly had no intention of damaging a pregnant chick, but he was *clearly* acting selfishly when he decided to turn in front of me. (There was no question that he knew he was making a risky decision. He did not simply lapse in awareness.) Is selfishess a valid intention of an attack? Or does it have to be "to cause harm"? (ie; Was I in a car "attack"?) The legal case is pending, but there is no doubt that the other party will be paying. What kind of retribution might be justified? (Please note: I'm really not asking for specifics to my case - just keep it general!)

I was in a car too, so tenkan was really difficult! I don't know how I could've etirely avoided the collision, so I'm left with how I deal with the aftemath. This begs the question, since *I think* it's better not to be blind to intention of others' incringing behaviors, how does one make the judgement of what the "attacker" is after, and deal appropriately?

I fully realize that this is all about words. I'm not especially trying to argue anything. But this discussion is helping me to clarify in my mind what really happens when I perceive "attack". And I think I'll be all the better at handling a wide range of situations by hearing what you guys have to say...

Last edited by sunny liberti : 12-01-2004 at 01:06 PM.


A brave man dies once; cowards are always dying." --Moanahonga, Ioway
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