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Old 05-02-2001, 07:11 AM   #15
Dojo: Kyogikan Sheffield
Location: UK
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 90

Originally posted by Kami

KAMI : 1. No. There isn't anymore. In the Uchideshi system, the student lived with the master, learning just from him. Even the so-called "Ueshiba's Uchideshi at Hombu" (Yamada, Saotome, and others) were really "Hombu's Uchideshi" under Kisshomaru Ueshiba Sensei and Koichi Tohei Sensei.And even so, they couldn't reightly be considered "Uchideshi", since they learn from many masters and not just from one. I know of no uchideshi system today. If I'm wrong, please correct me-.
2. You demonstrate a prejudice against me. I have stated previously to Peter Rehse that "I'm done with this discussion", since I'm not competitive and I don't feel the need to win any discussion. And nowhere did I "bash" competition. If you have proofs to the contrary, please show me them. On the contrary, I said : QUOTE["The introdution of competition would not improve the art but it would surely improve COMPETITION. Very good, if you want to change the art into a sport (not good or bad, just different).] Allow me to say that I see no "bashing" in that.
I had long discussions with Peter Rehse but, even if he got impatient with me, after some time, it was not for any lack of elegance on my part but on his perception that "I wasn't accepting his explanations". I disagree with competition. That's all. It's a right that everyone in this list have : to express his opinions. Not rudely but in an educated form. But Peter Rehse himself admited, also previously, to be a little "sensitive"...and so, it seems, are some Tomiki people. Don't be! Read without prejudice and admit other people might have different opinions and the right to express them without aggression.
My question wasn't about competition, it was about japanese Shihan and what would happen to Aikido when they all die. The subject of competition was asked by the beginner of this thread and commented "en passant". You changed the subject but a part of your answer (correct and perfect transmission to his students) does not satisfy me, for the reasons I stated above, i.e., no transmission is correct and perfect, all is flux, martial arts must progress and by progressing become a little diferent from the way Shihan taught).
I hope we may avoid prejudice and try to be elegant in our debate. If you do not find that possible, I'll bow out, since I'm non-competitive.

1. Point taken. my understanding of Uchideshi was a professional aikidoka who trains all day and I am sure there are plenty of uchideshi in this repect. However my understanding of what uchideshi entails was obviously different - I can see how there are no longer uchideshi of the calibre to which you refer.

2. The point to which I was responding is - "the introduction of competition would not improve the art"
I think however that you did not mean to generalise, but in this comment 'the art' is meant to be Aikikai aikido? Maybe not - but I do believe competition has improved tomiki aikido which I believe is not a sport. I do however think randori has no place in traditional aikido as it is today.

I hope that I have not been 'inelegant' in my discussion but have responded to your valid opinion. If I have been, it is due to my direct nature, and for this I apologise.
Do not worry about offending/upsetting me, despite appearing sensitive I merely jumped at the chance to dicuss something which is of great personal interest.
However I don't want to turn this into another randori debate - it would be impolite.

In returning to the thread, on reflection I agree with your point about aikido being in flux, however I have faith in the shihan to make those changes as they see fit - I do not consider myself qualified to make judgements on this matter. This is in my opinion forward movement and evolution if not strictly 'improvement'.
However I do believe that some things should be(and are) set in stone, such as the underlying principals in what we all practice and I do not think it is possible to tamper with these.
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