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Old 11-08-2004, 11:33 AM   #96
Hiros_Angel's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10
Re: Aikido and being Christian

Ok ... I have in fact lead this whole thing far from the point of the thread. I just have to defend myself on a few things before I end it.

Well, actually, firstly ...

"Sarah, Thanks for the opportunity to verbalize and express my thoughts...this has been fun!"

you're very welcome, and thank you as well. you all are very smart... this has been a lot of fun in a challenging way.

anyways ...
when I said "If the Bible were wrong (like actually provably wrong) in even just one area .. I'd probably honestly cry" ... I'm sorry I worded it in a way that confused you. The point of my saying that was.. since the Bible has never been proven false (even while people dedicated themselves to proving it so) and it has stood true time and time again, I believe it. I meant if, just if there was ever even one mistake found in the Bible, my faith could possibly be based on a lie. What would be my assurance? I'd have to disreguard everything in the Bible. I so believe the Bible to be true. All I was pointing out is that I have reason to put my faith in Jesus and the Bible. Okay? Point clear now?
.. and don't accuse me of keeping inside my Christian box. I've told you ... I haven't always been this strong in my beliefs. I've grown strong because of what I've learned about other belief systems.

"Lovely grey area ya got there. And exactly where does "being persuasive end" and forcing begin? Is it forcing when I tell you not to come in my house because I don't want your message and you show up next week? That is force imo. So it's all relative. I think I can remember a few persuasive folks through history whose method of persuasion was via the barrel of a gun. They would only get forceful when you resisted their control, but of course the gun is there to remind you"

I think it's pretty obvious where being persuasive ends. "Is it forcing when I tell you not to come in my house because I don't want your message and you show up next week?" yea, I agree that's forceful. If you were to come out and request that I not talk about my beliefs with you anymore, I would stop. The person who who came to your house again the next week did not respect your wishes. You haven't presenting any wishes yet with me ... we've been debating back and forth, basically. If you told me you didn't want to talk about beliefs any more, I would gladly shut up and move on. To this point, I've asked questions, you've answered, you've asked questions, I've answered, you've expressed your beliefs, and I've expressed mine. It's been fine, hasn't it? If you wish that I would just shut up and take my persuasions elsewhere, ask and I will respect that. Respect is the key, like you said.

"Well there's a justification for ethnic cleansing if I ever heard one."

I don't understand what you meant. What did you mean when you said that? What did you think I meant with what I said? hmm .. sorry, in this case, Sarah's confused
ps. um well I uh, am a bit German ...

"Technically, every non-Christian (at least by your standards) religion is already the anti-christ, since they don't accept him as their saviour. Isn't that correct?"

That is correct. Since they are all technically "against" the Christ. There are many hyperboles and metaphors in the book of Revelations, so it's hard to tell, but they seem to point in the direction that the anti-christ will be a person, a leader. Leader of the "world religion" (harmonized) that is ultimately against the Christ. I will check into it more though and try to better understand ...

"Now I'm confused. I thought you said that if anything was wrong in the bible your faith would be shattered and you'd cry. Now you are questioning the truth in the book of Revelations? Is it true or isn't it?"

Dude, stop nit-picking. I said "if the Bible is right in that" to try and make it from your prospective, instead of from mine. I totally believe the Bible to be the Word of God. I know that you do not. Sarah- not questioning the truth in Revelations. Just putting things more from your perspective in order to ask you a question, in which you never did answer. Point number one: I have reason to put my faith in the Bible because it's proven to be true. Point number two: from your perspective (not believing the Bible to be true as I do), wondering what you think. Do you understand now? Sorry for the confusion.

Anyway, I can admit that I am being persuasive. (not forceful .. but we've been through that ) Can you honestly say that you're not trying to persuade me in some way? For real? Everything I express about my beliefs, you obviously doubt them and say things that go against them. You ask me questions, just like I do you. You respond to what I say, seemingly in an attempt to show me that I'm wrong in being a dualistic fundamentalist. If you honestly did not want me to take to heart what you say, or honestly weren't trying to persuade me in some way, you wouldn't have responded to anything I've said. Correct me..?

"It appears this thread has digressed to the point of "I am right and this is the only way" conversation. "

So it has. By no means does anyone have to accept that Jesus is the only way. But you all definately knew that, right? I think it might be a good idea to search for the one truth though. I told you ..Jesus, and I expressed why, but why listen to me? You say you're respecting all religious beliefs and it doesn't really matter what you believe ... could it be that you're just avoiding the truth? You don't know (or care) which one is true, so all of them are? There are no truths! Is that True? I think that refutes it all. How can you support relativism with an absolute view? Nobody has to change, probably won't (and i won't and can't force)...but just something to think about.

Again, I'm sorry for shifting the basic theme of this thread. I'll end it here, and if anyone cares to reply, I guess ... in open discussions? Or by e-mail. And if you want me to just not express my beliefs anymore, remember just ask. I will not turn persuasuion into force by not respecting your wish!

<3 *Sarah*
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