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Old 04-24-2001, 01:58 PM   #27
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
Location: Brazil
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 355

Originally posted by Karl Kuhn
I am concerned about the following:

Ubaldo wrote: " Karl Kuhn said that "I had no experience". " Now, that is a direct quote attributed to me that is a complete fabrication and it troubles me.

KAMI : Heavy words...You begin by saying that I "fabricate" a quote of yours. What that would make of me? Let's see : I said you accused me of "having no experience". You protest and say that your exact words were :
"I would caution against people making sweeping generalizations about something THEY HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED". Pray, do tell me, if I have not experienced something isn't the same as saying I have no experience about something?

The spirit of my reply may very well have been misinterpreted and for that I apologize. By "experienced" I meant spent some time with and participated in. You have said that you attended an event or two and while you are free to draw conclusions, I still think it is important to understand that many of us do not consider that enough of the picture to make a fair assesment. Again, no where did I say "you had no experience".

KAMI : Now, you make clear what you wanted to say. Of course, now I can understand what you intended to say. But believe me, You didn't say that in your earlier post. Now I think I understand it : "Many of you" do not accept opinions from people, unless they have large experience". I say the same I told before to Peter : This is an open Forum, not a meeting point for experts. Everybody, I think, is free to present his opinions and the more experienced are free to correct anything wrong. By the way, I present my opinion WHY I was against competition in Aikido, not just in Tomiki style. It should be answered in this way, not as a defense against a supposed attack on Shodokan.

Randori is central to Tomiki's ideas on Aikido education. It is not a thing thrown on to hype up kids or reward "competative" behavior. It is at the core of the educational model. Tomiki was quite clear in this, Kata and Randori work together to create a students aikido. The events that are held are celebrations of Aikido that allow participants an opportunity to better their Aikido. To suggest anything else betrays a lack of understanding or an agenda.

KAMI : It's incredible as you read what you wish! Read again my posts, since you wish to criticize them. Tomiki Sensei was a fantastic master, very intelligent and much influenced by Kano Jigoro Sensei. He created competition in Aikido in the same mold as his master (Kano Sensei) promoted competition in Judo. There are "no lack of understanding or agenda". Anyway, remember that Kano Sensei, Ueshiba Sensei, Tomiki Sensei and many others are respected masters, not Gods. They're subject to mistakes and failures as we all are. The introduction of competition in martial arts (in modern times) by Kano Sensei and Tomiki Sensei MIGHT be a mistake.

Frankly, I don't have to "prove" anything to you but

KAMI : Sorry, but I said "prove" not because of any arrogance but for the constant attacks I was suffering based only on opinions. They weren't answers, but just discussion without context.

I would be happy attempt to answer the questions to posted.
a) prove to me that Shodokan's competitions do not usually present bad techniques
Easy. I'll meet you in Osaka in October for the big shindig and you can see for yourself :^) Seriously though, the Embu Kata portion of the competitions presents lovely technique. The techniques in randori are seldom as "pretty" but you can certainly tell when they are successful.

KAMI : As I said...You agree with the thing I proposed that "the techniques in Randori are not pretty". Observe that I made no mention of Kata.

b) show me numbers demonstrating the increase of championships and tournaments
Why are you so concerned with the numbers of participants?

KAMI : Why are you so concerned about disagreeing with me? Since you disagree so much, the only way to end this discussion is to have the most common thing in the world : data on competition. what has been the progress, the number of participants, etc...

I have read with great interest your posts on a number forums these past couple of years and respect your passion for Aikido and envy your time to research and post as you have ;^)

KAMI : There's a reason for that : I'm an invalid and I can no longer practice as I liked. So I have lots of time to train my mind, if not my body. Please, allow me that!

I'm not sure what you are looking for here.

KAMI : I "fabricate" quotes; I talk about "something I have no experience in"(another fabricated quote...); I'm looking for some "hidden and devious" thing...My God, in your opinion, I'm something like an "Evil Genius"...(

c) prove to me that Toshu Randori wasn't tried and abandoned
This is very interesting in that the question of Toshu and it's inclusion has been the subject of some questions recently- only on the internet and mostly by people that have not attended an event. There is a very simple answer-it was never abandoned. What happened in the US is that the host city has historically has had a good deal of say as to what the event looked like and Toshu was often not included. Plus, Tanto Randori is easier to judge, play and more fun, IMO.

KAMI : Oh, Well...Then I might have to rephrase it : It has been abandoned in many parts, in favor of Tanto Randori. But, in a certain way, you agreed with me that Toshu Randori isn't much seen around...

Also, you wrote:
"But I would remind you that competition, in Tomiki Aikido, never really took hold."

Sorry, this is an unfortunate distortion. To suggest otherwise is suspect, imo.

KAMI : Thank you, again. Now, I'm "suspect"...As I said before, the growth of competition and championships, throughout the world, should be demonstrated by data, not by words. But, as you yourself said before, "you don't feel you have to prove anything to me". So be it...

I hope this helps,

KAMI : Believe, me, it has!

BTW, turned 33 last week and feeling every bit the spring chicken, thank you very much:^}

KAMI : Turning 60 and feeling very bad but definitely NOT giving up!
The Suspect

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Ubaldo Alcantara
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