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Old 07-27-2004, 09:52 AM   #25
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
Re: Poll: Which art do you think is more physically effective - judo or aikido?

Michael Neal wrote:
It is amazing that almost every Aikidoka I have talked to brings up some kind of story about an Aikido master who defeated some unknown Judoka and then converted that guy to Aikido. The story is then repeated over and over again.
I have brought up no such story, and several others on this forum haven't either. I have also not repeated any stories. I think you exagerate.

Usually we have no idea of the Judoka's experience level or the full details of the event itself, I mean a demonstration of a technique can hardly be claimed to be defeat of a Judoka. "Here, grab my wrist" does not equal randori, sparring, or fighting.
a) if you'd like some details, read the stories about Sokaku Takeda, Mochizuki Sensei, etc. on **I** won't repeat them though...

b) I have seen no one say that a wrist grab = randori, sparring or fighting.

They start threads about how they went to a Judo dojo and tossed them around etc. etc. Then they start a poll to show that most Aikidoka think Aikido is more effective etc. etc.
Uh, the poll was started by the Aikiweb system (AKA Jun), so this was not the same person who started the judo thread. Peter started the judo thread, and his post was very complementary about judo, and not once did he talk about throwing judoka around because of his aikido. you can read his post here:

His last sentence
I must say I really like the people I've met doing Judo. No need for posturing - its very clear who can do what to who. You may fight hard but before and afterward - very relaxed.
Tells me that you've read him all wrong.

It is then the Judoka who is a jerk for questioning this and offering the opposite
viewpoint. We are supposed to fall in line and say that both arts are the same, even while they constantly try to hint with their stories that Aikido is superior.
Well, I see people giving their perspective, and you disagreeing with it. Your attitude (what some might call being a jerk) is separate from the information you provide, at least in my mind...

While most Aikido is practiced in manner that is much less rigorous than Judo and with alot of cooperation we are supposed to say that does not matter it is only the individual martial artist that matters.
Well isn't it the individual artist that matters? If you take someone that doesn't break a sweat in their training and put them up against a world class athelete, why would you expect the non-sweating person to win? Duh... If you take a shodokan stylist who trains 6 days a week, HARD, and put them up against someone who does judo cassually...who do you think will win... duh.... Its kind of stating the obvious.

Sorry, I disagree and I am sorry if that hurts people's feelings but I am just being honest. I never said Aikido sucks or is not good, that has never been my argument at all. My argument from the beginning has been that the training methods of Judo make it more practical.
No problem, no need to appologize for disagreeing. More practical for what? The nice thing about judo is that it has some pretty standard practices for training. Pretty much no matter where you go, the standard format will be the same (exceptions might be in the case of kosen judo or dojo that are similarly focused). The level of skill might change, the level of physical fitness might change, but the format is pretty much the same.

I can think of at least 10 different styles of practice that I have seen personally in aikido...some in the same federation! Aikido keiko is simply not as monolithic as judo practice. No harm there.

I am not trying to attack anyoone personally here, as Lynn and Peter said above it is different viewpoints that make things interesting.
Quite hold your opinion, accept that some here will not convert to it, train hard, and live well.


Ron Tisdale
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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