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Old 07-12-2004, 10:35 AM   #69
L. Camejo
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Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Cool Re: Tales of Judo Sparring Aikidoists

Michael Neal wrote:
No it did not come directly from Aikido it came from Jujutsu from which both Judo and Aikido were derived. Of course there are simularities on movement and off balancing but the randori that Judoka do makes them better at doing kuzushi against resisting opponents.
So by that phrase, as long as mainstream Aikido starts doing a lot more resistance based randori they should kick some serious a$$ in most Judo dojo, right?

Michael Neal wrote:
This one of those important details that was left out of the previous story that sheds light on what happened, you have previous Judo training.
Lol. Let me clarify - the encounter we were talking about hapened over 2 years ago. At that time, I had about 6 hours of total Judo instruction under my belt. Of that, 5 of those hours were just ne waza and rolling, not much technical stuff.

So if an Aikidoka who has under 10 hrs. of official Judo instruction can be that effective using Aikido against a resisting Judoka who has been training for years, then (1) It don't take much to shut down some experienced judoka in tachi waza after all, if you know Aikido or (2) Save for resistance randori (which may not be as uncommon as one may think) the average effectiveness gap between the 2 arts is not as great as being indicated.

You are missing the first point of effective Aiki my friend - you engage the attack before ma ai has even been set - resistance does not matter, since you are applying kuzushi before your attacker has the chance to react or resist. This is what made my technique effective.

I use Judo/Jujutsu when I get resistance and end up in that range (which means my Aiki has failed), my Judo pal never had the chance cuz I set him up to be where I wanted him from the beginning and he followed quite nicely. The only element of judo knowledge that I used is the Judoka's programming to grab certain parts of the clothing or anatomy, so I used it to my tactical advantage. But this last part has nothing to do with Judo, it has to do with martial strategy.

Wasn't it one of those really smart sword guys who said when blades touch the battle has already been decided?

Michael Neal wrote:
I disagree, "almost as effective" is being too generous.
I agree with you, in tachi waza Judo cannot compare if one understands how to use Aiki and timing. I think even Kano saw this.

Train hard, train conscientiously folks. Both martial arts have great benefits to those who can understand them. My fingers are tired.


--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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