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Old 05-01-2004, 11:15 AM   #75
sanskara's Avatar
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 52
Re: Is Morihei Ueshiba really O Sensei

George S. Ledyard wrote:
Ok, hold on... a) I don't recall EVER saying anything that in any way referred to Tohei Sensei's abilities. It happens that my own teacher always spoke VERY highly of him.

b) my post this time (I don't remember the last one you refer to) did not in any way contradict what you were saying. In fact I threw it in as a factual detail SUPPORTING what you had said. You said he was a pre-war deshi and I supplied the dates.
Sounds like there was a bit of a communication breakdown on this one. The way I read your post was different than what you intended.

As for what I added, it wasn't in contrast to anything you had previously said that I can see. It was merely my take on what seemed to happen after the war. Tohei Sensei was the pre-eminent representative of the art, as far as most of the world was concerned. When I said he was in sync with O-Sensei, I didn't mean he believed the SAME things, just that his Aikido did have a spiritual side to it, unlike many of the other deshi who just seemed to want to do the waza.
Okay, I'm with you on that one. It's just that for someone who was so instrumental in the spread of Aikido, Tohei's contributions are very much under-valued in the current technical landscape of Aikido. FYI for those following this discussion: I'm not a current member or supporter of the Ki no Kenkyukai.

Anyway, you clarified that from the standpoint of your superior knowledge of the Tohei side of it... thanks it is clearer now. I still don't see a conflict here, I thought we were having a discussion.
We always were, George. Perhaps, some of my statements near the end of the message gave an alternate impression.

I am sorry I talk about Saotome Sensei "ad nauseum".
Alright, a bit harsh on my part. My apologies. Still, although it can be argued that you give credit where credit's due, to extol Saotome for all things Aikido undermines your contribution to the study of the art and what you've acquired through hard work and firsthand experience. It's like looking up the chain of command for the answers--something I abhor about the hierarchical structure of Aikido.

Why you felt it necessary to attack the ASU as agroup I don't get at all...
I don't think I crossed that far over the line. I simply said that your experiences with the organization and mine don't gist. Some of it could be simply a difference in taste, or experience with different schools.

If you felt that what I, or any of the other folks who posted about Systema, had to say could have been augmented with information about areas in which Tohei Sensei's system accomplished the same things within a traditional Aikido structure it would have been great to hear from you.
The truth is that my Aikido is not necessarily Tohei-centric, although there are strong influences in that vein. Generally speaking, if you find something in another art that complements your Aikido, there's not much else to say. I certainly don't want to be the guy on AJ that always chimes in with "Tohei Sensei taught us that" everytime somebody mentions something of value gleaned from a seminar.

You act like I was attacking you in some way I can't fathom.
Well, tone is something impossible to convey over the Internet. Truth be told, I was just laying it out as I saw it. I can't honestly say that I felt defensive or angered by your post, for what it's worth.

In fact, from what little I know about what you guys do, there may be some very interesting areas to explore that would benefit Aikido folks in general. If I had happened to have experienced them myself I would certainly be telling others about it.
There's good and bad, like in any approach to the art.

Anyway, I am sorry if I have somehow offended you in my posts. I was completely unaware of having done so.
I really wasn't offended, and I apologize if I gave you that impression. As I said earlier, I was just calling it as I see it--nothing more.

Actually I would think that some of the ideas in my posts recently would be very much in agreement with someone from your side of things but I could be wrong.
We probably agree more than we disagree. Communication's a b*tch.

James Bostwick
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