I agree strongly with your comment that ``Pain is a relative thing'' and that sometimes accidents do happen. I was not really refering to the bit of pain you get when Shihan puts an sankyo on my poor wirst or when sensei apply yonkyu to my leg! Those are just fun! Yeah, I have been called mad before in case you were wondering. But in all cases, they stoped as soon as I tapped.
Of course, I had my share of accidents, injuries and old pains that come back to haunt me now and then. It's part of what I signed up when I started to do Aikido. It's part of the risk.
As uke is it useful to understand how much pain a technique can inflict and to have a good idea of how much damage tori can do. A brutal shihonage can break your wirst, elbow, shoulder and neck but while I have been shown how to do it, no one has done it on me.
What I was refereing is tori purposfully injuring uke. Inflicting pain in a sadistic way and breaking uke. I do not see the point in that and that's why I do Aikido and not Krav Maga. But I can see how some people who train in Aikido want that kind of hard training. If you are expecting to use Aikido to carry your throw fighting and combat, then it's the only way to train. It's not somehting I want to do, but I am not planing on being involved in combat anytime soon.
Again, it all depends on what you signed for and what you want out of Aikido... Peter, are we suddenly agruing the same point? ;>
As for moksu, yeah, of course it's part of my ritual(tm)... BTW, is it spelled moksu or mokusu or what? I was under the impression that Japanese did not have a `k' sound ouside of `ku, ki, ku, ke, ko'...