View Single Post
Old 08-17-2003, 09:41 AM   #12
Mark Jakabcsin
Dojo: Charlotte Systema, Charlotte, NC
Location: Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 207
United_States
Offline
Peter,

My training experience that is relevant to the topic is Shodokan Aikido -- None. Hence my use of the term Tomiki Aikido instead of Shodokan Aikido. While the Shodokan is the largest organization it is not the only one that traces its roots back to Tomiki. We (the group I train with) trace back to Tomiki through Jack Mumpower, who trained with Tomiki and Oba in the late 50's and early 60's. Mumpower was trained before there was a Shodokan, before Tomiki developed randori, and before the 17 randori techniques were developed. Mumpower is a difficult man on his best days and organizations have never been his thing. At some point Mr. Tomiki dispatched a senior student to the US to teach Jack the 17 so we are familiar with them but prefer the 15.

As for Daito-ryu, we (the group I train with) were a part of the Roppokai (Daito-ryu) for a few years. Hosted Okamoto many times here in the US, took trips to Japan to train and trained with Okamoto at other locations in the US when possible. That relationship became extremely difficult and we left several years ago, although we still train and develop what we have been taught. If you like, you can go to Okamoto's site and check out the letter he posted 3 days ‘after' he received our letter of withdraw from his organization.

Back on topic.

The questions posed above: What makes a technique aiki no jutsu? Is aiki no jutsu technique specific to Daito ryu? This topic was discussed at great length over on e-budo (aikijujutsu section) several years ago. Unfortunately some of the best stuff was lost when e-budo crashed several years ago. That discussion is referred to by the e-budo posters as the First Great Aiki War, which occurred P.C. (Pre-Crash). After Crash (A.C.) there have been some decent discussions on the topic that can be looked up with relative ease. Although I caution these posts are not for the timid or easily offend. Tempers and egos flared, sometimes to childish proportions. I certainly acknowledge that at times my participation was not as adult as I would have liked. One other sad note is that two of the posters felt it necessary to go back long after the discussion was over and edit or delete every one of their posts. This is unfortunate since it makes the reading difficult to follow and it eliminates some good info and insight. However, with all of that said, some may still find it interesting reading.

This is a very difficult discussion to tackle in the training hall let alone on the Internet. The first question can take years training to start to understand if ever. Even then opinions can and will vary greatly as seen in the referenced e-budo discussions. IMO, aiki no jutsu is best summed up in the Supreme Courts opinion on pornography. When the Supreme Court was asked to define what makes something pornography instead of art, they basically said they couldn't give a definitive definition but they knew it (porn) when they saw it. Aiki and aiki no jutsu are basically the same, you know it when you see it. The story from Nariyama Sensei is a perfect example.

The big problem when discussing this topic is that each of our frames of reference is different, in some cases very different. If I begin to discuss the basics of aiki no jutsu everyone will simply say, ‘ah yes, we do that too, hence we do have aiki no jutsu.' Example, Okamoto states the three basic principles of aiki are breathing, circular motion and controlled response. Is there anyone on here that doesn't feel breathing and circular motion are part of their basic principles? Probably not. Yet that doesn't mean they are the same or even related, conveying this in words is difficult to the point of uselessness. I didn't use to feel that way but it is hard enough to convey this understanding in the training hall over months and years of practice let alone the written word. To further my point look at the third basic principle of ‘controlled response'. I suspect a fairly large number of you reading this feel that means ‘uke tanks'. It doesn't but when people see good aiki no jutsu and don't have experience with it they can't understand what happened. So they simply believe uke took a dive. It is easier for them to accept that and write it off.

The second question is only slightly easier. Is aiki no jutsu technique specific to Daito-ryu? The following is my opinion and I give it knowing that others will disagree, so be it. Chris mentioned that aiki no jutsu technique is a collection of 53 specific techniques. I acknowledge that this was probably true at one time but I don't believe the essence of aiki no jutsu is in a specific technique or collection. Nor is that essence limited to a mere 53 applications. Aiki no jutsu is a concept of application of basic principles that becomes limitless. The 53 techniques are simply a method of teaching the concept, i.e. the techniques in and of themselves are limited, the key is understand the how's and why's and being able to apply those how's and why's.

I bring this up because I do believe that other arts outside of Daito-ryu use and have the same/similar concepts of application. So the answer to ‘is aiki no jutsu technique specific to Daito-ryu?' is NO. The similar concepts of aiki no jutsu can be found in a few other arts, even if specific techniques aren't. The concepts and ability to apply those concepts in a changing environment are what aiki no jutsu is really all about. Others disagree and their thoughts can be found on those e-budo posts…….if they haven't deleted them.

Honestly I feel bad about this post, like I am copping out but it really will take hands on study by interested parties for an extended period of time to begin to understand. No post I could write could possibly convey the knowledge found in experience. In some of the threads on e-budo I wrote a great deal more, perhaps those will help. Sorry.

mark

Take care,


Mark J.
www.charlotte-systema.com
  Reply With Quote