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Old 01-11-2001, 04:51 PM   #38
Brian
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 44
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jesus practiced aikido too...

Quote:
bones wrote:

There's nothing special about logical thought. Logic arises from cognitive metaphor of basic perceptual schema, in the context of neural physiology. Platonism died with modern biology and cognitive science. Translation: we can take what we think we know and imagine things about it.
1 + 1 = 2. If I know that 1 represents a singular object/unit, I know that if I have one more, I have twice that 1, or what we refer to as two. Knowing that 2 represents two of 1, or twice 1, I can use logical thought to deduce that combining two sets of 2 would get me two times 2, or what we refer to as 4. Thus, from understanding that 1 + 1 = 2, I used logical thought to determine that 2 + 2 = 4. This is not imagination, but truth. 1 + 1 DOES = 2. I don't think I know this, but realize this as truth. Thus, I have taken what I DO know and learned/solved something else from it. Logical thought is quite important. Although my example is very simple, it represents the whole of the development of mathematics. No one just suddenly decided, "Why, let's make up a bunch of meaningless jargon and use it to solve real life problems!" It was developed through the logical processing of things we already knew, or had already learned. I am not trying to argue the origin of math, but simply to display that logical thought is indeed important.

Quote:
bones wrote:


What physical law would this be? I have a Ph.D. in physics and I have never heard of it. What is a 'physical thing'?
I cannot name right off the top of my head the name of the law, but I can assure you that no physical thing can create itself. I'll keep searching for the name, but while I do, ask yourself this- what physical thing CAN create itself?

When I say physical thing, I refer to everything that exists in the universe (I use the universe here referring to the entirety of space and beyond, and everything within it. When I say beyond, I refer to facets of the universe we have yet to discover, but not to planes such as Heaven or Hell).

Quote:
bones wrote:

Is time itself not a 'physical thing'? This notion of 'before' is too simplistic to address questions about the origin of the universe.
Time itself is not a physical thing- it is the measurement of the movement and change of matter and energy. It itself is not a form of matter, space, or energy- it's just something we created for our convenience. It's far easier to say 'Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492' than to say 'Columbus sailed the ocean blue when the earth had only made approximately X revolutions around the sun.'

Quote:
bones wrote:


I have no problem if people want to believe in metaphysical things. Not everyone is going to spend the decades it requires to understand the boundaries of our knowledge (not that I necessarily do). But I don't like to see people pass such arguments off on others. Science obviously does not have an answer to every question, but this is almost always because its a bad question to begin with... and never, ever anywhere does it conclude or even suggest there must be 'something beyond' the physical.
I don't mean to come off as nit-picky, but I didn't say science concluded or suggested that there is something beyond the physical, I said that logical thought led there. These are two very different things, but both can help us understand things. Nor did I say that my argument was scientific fact- I referred to it as a thesis ( A proposition to be defended or maintained by argument), one that was created using logical thought.
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