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Old 03-04-2003, 01:06 AM   #57
ikkainogakusei
Location: All over CA
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 137
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Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
It seems that countering this kind of cartoonish thinking is my job here.
Well hello Kevin, I see you've decided to take the low road and cast aspersion rather than ask for origin of assertion.

Bummer.

In Neurophysiological Basis of Movement ( Latash 1998) the author discusses a technique used to isolate a motor unit (for those of you who unclear on the term MU means 'The motorneuron and the muscle fibers it innervates...' -Latash 98) called needle electromyography whereby "...a thin needle (with a diameter of less than 1 mm) is inserted into a muscle (figure 6.6). Inside the needle is a very thin wire that is electrically isolated from the needle. The tip of the wire is not isolated." "Such electrodes are designed to record the patterns of activity of individual motor units." (Latash 98).

Interestingly enough, though I have already addressed this research in Motor Development and Motor Learning, we were just discussing (in Neuromotor Control) last week the study whereby using this technique combined with biofeedback a person can actually isolate a single motor unit and contract only those fibers without contracting the full muscle. Not only can we choose consciously to contract one muscle, but we can individuate a set of fibers within that muscle.
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
The isolation of specific muscles in weight training is actually impossible.
I would agree, had I known that a simplification which I used to discuss training, for the sake of avoiding ad nauseam forensic discussion, would be flagged and labeled 'cartoonish' I'd have been more careful. I think for the sake of others though, discussing enough curricula to enable one to attain a BS in Kinesiology should be unnecessary.
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
The body knows of movements, not muscles.
Hmmm, I don't agree. How do you come by this assertion?

True, the body develops coordinative structures, but it is possible for the body to respond to an action potential meant for a specific motor unit, and depending upon recruitment need, possibly more than one.
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
Even so-called 'isolation' movements on special machines are really nothing of the kind, just really impractical movements lacking components of balance and control.
These components, would it be too much to ask if we are talking about vestibular, visual, or kinesthetic components of balance? (<<my emphasis of study) When you speak of control, are you speaking of neuro-motor control? Is that too specific, should we simplify? Would that be cartoonish?
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
You have some good ideas about specificity in training,
Oh, hey thanks.
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
but keep in mind that there are both general and specific components to training. Weights and bodyweight exercises can be used to further one's general physical preparedness, and most definitely NOT just in terms of "isolating specific muscles".
Yes there are agonists, antagonists an synergists, but do you think everyone wants to hear the long of it?

You're right. For those of you still reading this discourse: when you use the 'Lat' Pull-down Machine' you are using more than your latissimus dorsi, in fact you would not be able to grip the machine if you could only use your lats.

I would assert that by using weights in a fashion that targets a particular muscle to be used as the Prime Mover, one is reducing the number of Degrees of Freedom, and reducing the need for complex Coordinative Structures used in a more complex movement, so that one can concentrate on a possibly more weak area, though it should be noted that weights are not purely isolationary in their function.

Is that verbosity necessary?
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
The best weight moves (compound freeweight and bodyweight exercises) develop muscle strength and size, bone strength, joint strength, active ROM, balance, neuromuscular coordination in multi-jointed movements for starters, and can help foster strong, injury-preventive movement patterns such as proper squatting and standing hip flexion.
Okay, if we're going to to go down Forensic Lane, you may want to rethink some of your uses of the term 'strength', some might argue that you've malapropped.
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
Special weight moves like the Olympic lifts and variations can also develop general motor qualities such as maximal power and rate of force development.
Oh, I get it, this is a sermon.
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
Search for some of my posts under HIIT for more info.
No wait, it's a sales pitch.

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