Thread: hip throws
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Old 01-11-2003, 08:18 PM   #17
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 199
Talking I'm thinking in this box over here....

Kevin wrote:
This is a fallacious argument. There is little relation between a benchpress and kokyunage, whereas the hip, knee, and ankle flexion of a deadlift or squat is very similar to the position assumed during koshinage.
If you believe that picking someone up and throwing them to the ground over your hip, your shoulder, or your head by the use of muscular force, then I agree, my argument is definitely fallacious. My argument was not really concerned about the physiological similarity between certain movements in Aikido and resistance training. My point was more about the degree of strength required to execute a technique, using the idea that if we don't need to bench press (or do any sort of "upper body" exercise) to do te waza effectively, why do we need to do squats to be able to do koshi waza? I am not saying that being physically unfit will help the technique at all.
Kevin also wrote:
Moreover, at no time during kokyunage, or any "hand" throw, is one required to lift uke's entire bodyweight off the ground.
That is my point, who does actually lift the uke's body weight off the ground? I am taught that it is the uke who does it.
Kevin then wrote:
Ideally, it appears that once koshinage is smooth and quick, one need not hold uke up, but only provide a momentary obstacle for uke to 'trip' over, at the waist. However, during learning, the throw cannot safely be done perfectly at high speed, so there are many times when one must hold up uke's weight in a forward-leaning squat position.
Tripping is a nice metaphor, if a bit simplistic. Watching or participating with people who can do this kind of stuff kind of changes one's mind. I absolutely agree about performing at high speed, for those learning the basics, it must be slow. That was why I posted the suggestion about doing forward rolls instead. I think learning to "load" weight in the fitting portion of the technique helps the tori more than the uke though, but not for the fact that you are performing some version of resistance training. It just shows where the right positioning is, the kime of the throw, and so on.
Kevin wrote:
For those of us on the tall side, this can sometimes be a pretty deep bend of the knees and hips, and an uke can easily weigh upwards of 200 pounds.
Although not huge, I am 6 foot 2 inches and 185 pounds. I don't have too much trouble throwing people smaller than myself, I just have to make sure I fit to them correctly. As far as being uke, I like to say "I am hard to pick up, but really easy to throw." I am all for being physically fit, as most people would say that I am, and I wholeheartedly support Kevin's ideas about proper joint strength and body alignment. I just don't think that you have to have big muscles to make people fall down. I don't want to worry about lifting the 200 - 300 pound uke, and as long as I do what I am taught, I shouldn't have to.

Jim Vance
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