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Old 07-04-2014, 03:21 PM   #138
Blue Buddha
Location: Ljubljana
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
Yugoslavia
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Re: Introduction + The missing Atemi

Quote:
Arno Hist wrote: View Post
There are people who don't have this determination, time, money, craze, or whatever, and what to learn self defence (and along whatever comes with it) in just one system. Are they fools? Should they be left in ignorance just because you, or me, would feel safer with less experienced m. artists in the streets? Who is to decide?
Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Those people probably should not be studying a martial art at all.
Well, there is no much space for misunderstanding here. It's not a bad thing to admit when you are wrong.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
So toss out the word "jerk" if it seems too judgmental to you (an understandable reaction, obviously). I found it interesting that in context, the person who first used it (I thought) made it clear that he was using "being a jerk" in a somewhat different sense than one would usually use it. I think I understood what he meant, but if you can't see it (again understandable), then set the term aside. Likewise "obstinate attitude", if that strikes you as too judgy. I think it's just being used as shorthand, though.
English is not my first language, so there is always a language barrier that needs to be overcome. Still when I am arguing I am careful not to use words like stupid, jerk etc.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I think everyone who's trying to explain this to you understands quite well that this is not just a case of uke intentionally being difficult out of sheer meanness or stubbornness or (insert character flaw of choice here). Sometimes uke is hopelessly uncoordinated and so unknowingly does something that puts him/herself in a really bad position. Sometimes uke has a "bright idea" that really isn't so smart at all, resulting in (again) a really bad position. Sometimes uke is inflexible or out of shape and can't move in ways that are required to receive the technique safely. Whatever. But the important thing is that in all cases, uke is doing something that impedes his/her own learning.
It has quite successfully pointed out by other members of this forum that it is not always the uke who impedes the training. What I am trying to add, is my view regarding the other reasons, as *I* see them, why the training methodology is not optimal. You don't need to agree with me on that, but that is how I see it.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
You demand an explanation before you are willing to accept the teaching, but you lack the experience and knowledge to understand the explanation -- and without accepting the teaching, you won't get it. You have to be able to accept at least the possibility that what you're told as so, and to practice accordingly, before you can gain an understanding of why this is so.
I don't demand anything. I opened a discussion on something that is troubling me and many others like me. I am very open to other ideas, possibilities and viewpoints and as I respect theirs I demand that they respect mine..

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Arno, you've clearly got an axe to grind,
Its a pity you feel this way. I have only been honest and respectful of others, in contrast to what I am receiving as replies, just because I insist in my opinion.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
What you just did is a combination of a strawman argument (misrepresenting the position of the other side in order to make it an easy target to destroy with great drama, rolling of eyes and clutching of pearls..."Sorry, but we have a life outside the dojo...") and a false dichotomy. You've constructed the absurd position that the choices for self-defense are 1)taking ten different martial arts classes or 2)doing nothing, and then attributed that position to me. This is intellectually dishonest, and quite laughably so.
Please, read again our quotes above, side to side. What am I misrepresenting exactly?
"Laughably dishonest" - Again, this level of communication does not suit me.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
You say you want a solution, yet you refuse to define the problem. How can you expect useful answers if that's the approach you take? Do you walk into a hardware store and say, "I want the best tool in the store", refuse to answer when they ask you want you want to use it for, and then yell, "So you propose that I either buy every tool in the store, or not buy any tool at all!"? "Self-defense" is the same. Who or what are you defending against? Why are they attacking you? Where are they attacking you? Do they have any skills, weapons, other resources? Is this a movie-fantasy attack in the stereotypical dark alley, or is it something more realistic, like an attack by a spouse or partner? Et bloody cetera.

No one can help you if you refuse to frame the problem in terms that have some relation to the real world. If you'd rather just move the goalposts every time someone tries to give you an answer, so you can have the satisfaction of ridiculing their response, then I wish you every bit of the rancid, bitter enjoyment that kind of game brings. Meanwhile I'll be over here investing in circus pony futures.
I think I gave enough framing with examples regarding this hypothetical situation, but still there is no reply. Again, it is funny how you feel that I am looking for help. This is incorrect. I started a discussion expressing some viewpoints and some very helpful individuals shared some invaluable knowledge to me that gave me food for thought.

Then the conversation went on, and as it is often the case with conversations, I put forth some new observations and viewpoints. And finally, because there are apparently too many fanboys in this forum, I am being called a troll. Is there any sticky that said "thou shall not speak critically about aspects of aikido you don't like"?

What can I say. Focusing only on you, you have attacked me with various adjectives in your last posts when there is no need for that at all. Especially your last paragraph is beyond my imagination and I guess it enters the field of psychology. I just wanted a friendly, fruitful dialogue and to an extend that is what happened.

If someone thinks they can contribute further with they response, they are welcome to do so. If this is something you are not interested in, there are many other things on the internet you can have fun with. I don't have the time or will to answer to offensive comments.
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