Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
I'm fairly familiar with Saotome, he gave me my first couple of dan ranks - but except for a weekend when he passed through Japan ten years ago I haven't really had any contact with him since the last '80's.
In any case, I've certainly never said that pain is not Aikido. What I said is that the pain compliance part is:
a) Very easy.
b) Not very interesting, mainly because of (a).
c) Done by every store front martial arts kids class, which also contributes a bit to (b).
The non-painful variant that Shioda talks about is operating along some different lines, IMO. A number of people seem to think that this is a high level (maybe too high a level) thing - but that would just make it more interesting, to me.
I'm not particularly concerned about causing anybody pain, it just doesn't interest me much.
On a purely practical level, hit 'em with a two-by-four. It always works, is eminently practical, and can be done by just about anybody - which covers most of the arguments for focusing on the pain compliance aspects of nikyo.
FWIW...
Best,
Chris
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Hit them with a two-by-four? Really? That is just plain silly Chris. I would tend to think that is going to result in a much more protracted entanglement with law enforcement and the court system than an uninteresting painful nikyo. I, like may others, strive to not rely on pain but connection (maybe not the IS type) however I do have pain copious amounts in reserve should it be needed. Also,
Inside the dojo and at the seminar where so many variables are absent or controlled one can eventually probably have a high degree of success applying painless techniques and there is certainly knowledge to be gleaned and appreciated from that. I'm not say that it is not worth studying or incorporating to some degree.
However, how well that fully translates to spontaneous in your face confrontations I'm not so sure. Shioda said what he said in his own book and pain seems to be ok with him, his description of Osensei not withstanding. Further, there many Shihan of "Modern" Aikido that seem to use at least some pain and yet also have real connection. Saotome, Seagal, Isoyama, Doran come to mind. Even though there are those out there (some whom might even be in some of these Shihan's organizations) that say "Modern Aikido lacks "true Aiki". Well, they seem to be doing really good Aikido by us novice types and their Aikido might even said to be interesting to boot.
Also, I don't see video where the person (or multiple attackers even better) just crumble on contact at full speed. Maybe its out there but I have not seen it and if it is, is it being done by someone under the age of 80? I mean if one can get there shouldn't one have a fallback in the interim so that one is attacked they can remain upright and breathing so to be able to continue to study the mystifying and interesting?
Train Hard,
Jason