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Old 11-29-2013, 10:35 AM   #32
Ellis Amdur
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Location: Seattle
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 896
Re: Horikawa teaching Shioda?

Oisin - Fascinating information regarding the scroll - I'd love to see the article. That may change my thoughts on things, depending on what the scroll is (surprisingly often, people receive honorary scrolls for one reason or another).

You write:
Well It IS different, in terms of teaching and many of the core skills. The body movement is very different, for one. There are overlaps of course, especially in some aikido "styles", but to think that aikido practicioners can just start a bit of DR practice to up their aikido (Or vice versa) does both arts a disservice.
True - but Shioda learned Daito-ryu from Ueshiba Morihei. That's really my point.

I also think its stretching a point to say he "learned a technique." Maybe so. But if, for example, I was to visit you and say, "I saw you do "x" - would you do that to me?" and you once, do some subtle bit of aiki --ONCE - I could very well notice, "that was different." But it's doubtful that I would instantly understand it, note how it was a new element absent from my training to date, and that I'd immediately be able to incorporate it in my art. (Of course, you might reply, that's because you aren't a fraction of the martial artist Shioda was . . .).

The final piece was that Shioda petitioned horikawa to study on a more formal footing with him, but horikawa demurred as he considered him Ueshiba's student.
Do you have a source for this?

I'm not, by the way, arguing "for" something here. The two points you raise are interesting, though contradictory. In essence, Shioda received a scroll (which usually denotes being a student), but was refused as a student.

"Unfair to single out . . ." That would suggest I'm one-sided in my debunking of myths. Given that, at least in the English language, I was the first to write out Ueshiba Morihei as being involved, even supportive, of political terrorists, I cannot really be accused of being one-sided. Unless the "one side" I'm on is a suspicion of hagiography.

I wrote the essay and the one just published on Tohei because I'm intrigued by myth-making, and how they create "reality" on the ground. Just like I was very interested to take on the myth that Takeda Sokaku was of a certain nature, that he studied a secret art, etc., in HIPS. And how from another perspective, not only the myth, but reality itself changes slightly.

Anyway, I'd love to see the HIDEN article, and love to know more about the evidence of Shioda's petition.
Ellis Amdur

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