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Old 10-24-2013, 04:35 PM   #8
Budd
 
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Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 931
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Re: It's not You, It's Me

Quote:
Bill Danosky wrote: View Post
Well, I know what I was asking, but let's make sure I know what you're asking. Are you meaning "Aiki model" as it differs from an "IP model"? I have not personally experienced any "alternate" model that I felt impacted the practical application, so my answer to that is "It's all just really good technique."

My belief is that the mental constructs merely inform our physical training. Take Tai Chi as an example, when they envision smoke or fog moving through their body and into the ground. We all know there's really no smoke going from you into the ground, but maybe it makes you harder to move from a spot.

My concern is that one there- Does being rooted into the ground have martial value? It certainly assumes you can take a punch! People have said moving in six directions has to precede some physical movement. That would just have to slow down reaction time.

Or maybe it's like board breaking. Great demo, busting 12 bricks with your bare knuckles. But nobody is going to let you take seven practice swings and focus your Chi before you hit them, right?

When I am executing waza, I know where uke's center is. I can feel it. Ukes don't outrun my ikka jo. They float in Shiho Nage. I'm not bragging- I'm just saying those effects are available through other training methods.

So let's introduce a "Technique model". I am starting with just as much evidence as anybody else, and I can say, "It really works! Go train with Demetrio Cereijo, then get back with me if you still want to argue about it."
Bill, where are you located? I think getting you to have some hands on time with people actually training this stuff would help illuminate the difference between what they are talking about and what you think they are talking about. Coincidentally, Shioda was considered by some of his broader budo peers to be among the closest to attaining the old man's level of skill in internal power (I know I know some say he got it via DR study with Horikawa, yeah yeah, prove it), but his expression of is was much more martial OR WAS IT . . my contention is that he was representative of Ueshiba before he softened a bit and was pursuing aikido as his religious expression.

Anyways, the following video clip is of interest to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXoMyD50MG0

Aside from some showmanship where Shioda's demo partner is throwing himself around, there's some really good entries by Shioda where he displaces and bounces the other guy's power back into himself to drop him - as well as some of the joint lock extensions where you can see that Shioda isn't applying the lock to the joint necessarily, but has the guy's balance and keeping the guy floated via his connection. Those would be two examples of "aiki" as it's being described here - which unless you have the body skill and conditioning, attempts to replicate will look much more external and Jujutsuey (technical term).

Anyways, my $0.02.
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