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Old 05-01-2013, 03:43 PM   #82
Chris Li
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Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,300
Re: Can we see that aikido is all over the place in MMA?

Matthew Story wrote: View Post
For the purposes of the present conversation, I am ignoring anything that does not lead to a practical, functional definition of the word aikido. O Sensei was making up aikido as he went; he had the luxury of defining it as he saw fit. I have no such luxury; I need a word with a specific definition I can use.
O Sensei didn't make a lot of it up - most he got from Daito-ryu. As Andy said, if you go by technique, then strictly speaking, we should be calling this Daito-ryu.

Matthew Story wrote: View Post
In my experience it has been exactly that simple. It is the practical way all martial arts are defined. The fact that the old masters squabbled over whose aikido was the real aikido doesn't change the use of the word in practice.
It does because they define (for many people) what the word is. Moriteru Ueshiba, for example has some little bit of influence over how hundreds of thousands of folks define Aikido. And he's not all that old.

Matthew Story wrote: View Post
No, it does not follow. The fact that aikido is founded on certain principles does not necessarily mean that all things utilizing those principles are aikido.
Why not? If certain princlples govern, for example, a cookie, then anything made that way will be a cookie. I think what you're talking about goes more to branding, and there might be more of an argument there.

Matthew Story wrote: View Post
According to this logic, anyone who is doing anything with empty hands (clapping, swimming, sign language) can be said to be doing karate. And everything done with a sword is kendo. And everything done gently is judo.
Well, I think that's a little extreme gently=Judo is not quite the same as Aiki=Aikido.

Matthew Story wrote: View Post
If anything aiki is aikido, (a) there is no reason to have the word aikido at all, since we already have the word aiki, and (b) we need a new name for the martial art we do in the dojo so that we can distinguish it from an aiki way of making pancakes.
Adding "do" doesn't really make it that different, except for branding purposes. Westerners tend to get hung up on the "do" ending, but it really doesn't mean that much in Japanese.

Actually, the exact same kanji for "Aikido" can be used for esoteric Taoist sexual practices. It's not unique.

Matthew Story wrote: View Post
Who used the term before O Sensei?
He didn't invent it, he wasn't the first to use it, it was a generic category term for a number of arts that couldn't fit under other categories invented by a committee of the Dai Nippon Butokukai. There are at least three other groups from pre-war that I am aware of that also used the name and even continue to use the name.

Anyway, if you're defining Aikido by technique, shouldn't any MMA guy who uses an Aikido technique be doing Aikido according to that standard? I'm not sure where you're going here...



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