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Old 02-19-2013, 03:21 PM   #19
Mert Gambito
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 201
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Quote:
nikkyo
With or without IP/IS, the nage should be able to implement it without using both hands/arms (ditto regarding any of the other common wristlocks), in either variation of the technique shown in the video, and against a bent or straight arm.

Back to the main topic at hand. . . .

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
I just spent the weekend training with Ikeda Sensei and I am chewing on a question much like this.

What I can tell you for sure, though I cannot do it very well, is that you can use the IP part of Aiki to break your partner's balance in such a way that they do not tense up or ground themselves instinctively. This makes them easy to move with the external movement of your body.
Yes, I've experienced what you mean. The problem is, once the IP "carries the (contact) point" (Dan Harden parlance), external movement can be used to move the uke, but doing so instead of continuing to use fure-aiki causes the uke to exit the orbit after a couple steps, and/or the carrying to go dead.

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote:
I am not sure if you can use only internal power to make a classic Aikido waza happen. If you could, would it look the same or very different? I can't even do a smooth transition between kuzushi and technique right now. It takes me minutes of intense focus with an attentive partner to even get a little bit of tipping over, then as I activate my body the Aiki seems to evaporate.
Understood. Can relate. Seeds planted for a conversations to be revisited a few years from now. . . .

I wouldn't expect someone adept at IP/IS to get an uke who is not choreographing the ukemi to time and again produce cookie-cutter reactions. But I'd think someone adept could consistently induce that kind of movement to set up a logical finish within the physical lexicon of the art, as presented by the ukemi in that given instance.

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote:
Mert, if you just showed me a video of that man doing aikido, I'd say he was around 2nd kyu. And the shihonage he does at 2:45 would fail him for even a 3th kyu test in a dojo with exacting standards. . . .
Well, the idea of citing that particular video clip wasn't to point it out as bad technique per se, but rather to use it as an example of what is de rigueur for the type of grandiose moving-around of the uke that's iconic of the art today. Again, the cool thing is, it is possible to do this without choreographed ukemi, though few people can do it, and I'm yet to personally experience it from someone within aikido. (Caveat: Even then, IMO it's for the purposes of demonstrating skill, vs. for the sake of being pragmatic -- similar to appreciating speed metal, but preferring bread-and-butter blues.)

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote:
As we move forward into the next ten years or so, things are going to get interesting. And probably a lot more free and fun, too.
Yes, absolutely! The IP/IS methodologies during the past few years that have been posited here will all have been proven, debunked or simply filed away during the next decade. It will be entertaining to revisit all these IP/IS discussions and debates at that time to see who was trading in real substance vs. smoke and mirrors. . . .

Last edited by Mert Gambito : 02-19-2013 at 03:25 PM.

Mert
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