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Old 01-28-2013, 12:42 PM   #31
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Re: Int. Vs. Ext - resisting a push

Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
What I"m describing should, on some level, be demonstrable by anyone chasing "internal". Good, great, horrible, doesn't matter. the intention and goal is the same. While top level modern athletes certain learn efficient body/muscle usage, they do NOT train and sculpt their body/muscles to the degree that they obviously do and then magically eschew the use of those very muscles that they spend so much time keeping honed and at peek condition.
Yes you are right, they keep those muscles, because they use them constantly. You need to have strong muscles to make large amounts of force. I'm not saying that anyone ever stops using muscle, because they can't. You must use muscle to move the body, the more you have, the more force is possible, either giving or receiving.

Efficient use of that muscle is to goal. No one is changing systems.

You could go get Lebron James, physically, one of the most gifted and high level athletes on the planet, and put him in the scenario I gave and I'm still 200% confident he would respond exactly the same way as anyone else. Just go watch him play, watch him fight through a hard screen and you will see his body respond in a way that is congruent with the example I gave. That is, the flexing and tensing of those honed and sculpted muscles to solidify his frame while he drives through that screen. There is nothing about what he's doing that's different than what any athlete, high level or otherwise, does and none of that matches up with the mindset and goal of what I described in the demo/test.
There is something different he's doing, that's why he's one of the best athletes in the world. It's not just being strong, but how you use that strength.

Look, we all use muscle to move, internal, external, athletic and couch potato. No one on earth uses anything else to move. The more powerful your muscles the more power you can generate. That's the truth. If we can agree on that we can move on.

Being strong isn't all there is. There are also things like coordination of your muscles. How well can you use the muscles you've got? How well can you relax the muscles that don't need to be working, and create explosive contraction with the one's you've got. How balanced and agile are you?

Then after this we can move on to relational ability, and we move outside of what we are talking about now.

From what I read above, you are describing the difference between inefficient body use and efficient body use. And you are misunderstanding that top level athletes have to be both strong and efficient. Just because they are muscled, doesn't mean that they don't spend most of their time learning to use that muscle.

Most likely we don't completely know why, but that's only a sticking point for you. Science doesn't always know why something happens.
I'm not asking for a scientific study. I'd simply like to know how you think it works. If you don't have an idea of how it works, then why make such strong assumptions?

At some point you have to be interested enough to get out and experience it yourself and go from there because it's more likely that none of us are going to "know" on a level that will appease you.
I've spent lot's of time training in 'internal martial arts', I just have different answers then you do. If you keep an open mind maybe we'll find something new. I'm personally trying to keep an open mind (although it's getting harder and harder), so I'm looking for logical answers, to very simple questions.

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