View Single Post
Old 01-19-2013, 05:51 PM   #24
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,000
Japan
Online
Re: easily accessible videos of Internal Training in Aikido?

Quote:
Josh Lerner wrote: View Post
The demo is interesting in that it illustrates one of the difficulties in internal training - differentiating what people say or think they are doing and what they are actually doing. Regardless of his level of internal development, what he is doing to move his uke requires no particular internal skill (if we are defining it as jin or ground force or some aspect of being able to use the ground and the entire body to transmit force), or perhaps minimal internal skill. When they grab his wrists, and he demonstrates how to move them using his body, what he is doing is a small movement of his own forearm (like you would do in suwariwaza kokyu-ho) to change the angle of their wrist so that it is physically impossible for them to be able to apply an effective force with their grip. Because they are trying to still hold on with strength, they have to disengage their shoulders (raising them) to try to maintain an angle with their arm that allows them to keep their grip. Disengaging the muscles that keep the shoulder blade down effectively nullifies your ability to transmit force between your arms and torso (unless, I suppose, you are freakishly flexible and strong). Coupled with the fact that the situation (demo being done by a shihan) calls for them to keep on trying to hold on no matter what, they have no choice but to be moved around.

I'm saying nothing about his actual level of skill, as I've never met him. I'm just saying that even if he is fantastically skilled, what he is demonstrating is not what he says he is demonstrating, and that what he is demonstrating does not require the use of the whole body as he says. He does say how you have to get their shoulder high but doesn't seem to connect that with "using your whole body". You achieve that by the small forearm movement coupled with your partner's agreement not to let their grip be broken.

Having said all that, if you actually have internal skill, the trick is probably easier to do, but it is not required. The "four-legged animal that you are in control of" skill would also be helpful, but again, not required if your partner a) can't apply an effective force due to the awkward angle of their wrist and shoulder, and b) is agreeing not to let go.

And of course the difficulty is this - does he know that what he is demonstrating is actually not what he says he is demonstrating?

Josh
I would like to take the discussion one step further and separate the matter of what is being demonstrated from the description of what is being demonstrated. You can imagine Mr Ikeda simply demonstrating what he is doing with no commentary, but it would still not necessarily be a demonstration of IP. My point is that even if you take away the commentary, you are still left with the problem of the gap between what people think they are doing and what they are actually doing and this would apply to others besides Mr Ikeda. It might apply to Morihei Ueshiba, for example.

Best wishes,

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 01-19-2013 at 05:55 PM.

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote