Thread: Vantage points
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:10 PM   #180
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,646
Re: Vantage points

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Good Lord, Chris
I would love to open my browser some day and find a post by you that had a positive spin on anything I say.
Wouldn't it be nice to ask me what I meant?
How about asking me for further clarification?
Good grief man..can't you see how shitty this sounds?
The insinuation you offer (that you almost ALWAYS offer) is negative and judgmental and smells of some nefarious motivations on my part.
Dan I keep seeing this kind of stuff. I'm not trying to be personal, I'm just pointing out what I see. To me, the way you write sounds like you are trying to win all angles of conversation, while not addressing anything. I'm sorry that it sounds that way to me. I'm not sure what else I can say about that. It's not personal, I'm not trying to be divisive. I'm simply explaining how I see what you're writing.

It is highly personal as it directly speaks to motives and alludes to some agenda I am supposed to have. It always skirts just past open insult.
I'm not trying to insult you.

Okay. In an attempt once again to be nice in the face of this kind of conversation you like to have with me.....

I had to escape or leave the strictness of kata in two systems I trained in, in order to deepen the movement in those systems... in order to transcend them. Yes, transcend my teacher could no longer throw or do waza on me.
If you are making a comparison here between Aikido and something else, unless you're talking about a sport Aikido, being an Uke means falling for Nage. If your teacher could not throw you, it was something strange you were doing, and it wasn't Aikido Ukemi. If you are talking about sport martial arts, your "teacher" or "coach" doesn't have to be able to throw you. Most professional (all?) boxers can out box their coaches, that doesn't mean that they know more about boxing then the coach does. Transcending a system doesn't simply mean you can "out play" your teacher. It means developing a method that goes beyond what the system your teacher teaches can do.

I needed to go back to freestyle sparring with weapons and fighting without weapons in order to more fully understand how to use the body skills that were in those systems and transcend them. Yes, transcend as I could use aiki in freestyle fighting in a way I had not seen.
Interestingly enough my friends in those systems get it and fully agree with what I just said.
I have experience with this myself. I understand the power of this type of training. However, if you could use what you call "aiki" in free styles practice and Ueshiba and Takeda could use what you would call "aiki" in freestyle situations, how is it that you transcended their systems? If you have found a kind of power, superior (transcending) from that used by those who created a system to teach that power, you have your own thing, why call it "aiki"? If you discovered these things outside of a system, why wouldn't you say that you've created your own unique method? If you've created a good way to transmit this power to others (and it sounds like you believe that you have) then why not simply say that you are teaching your own system?

That said, although I no longer am active in them, I remain supportive of traditional systems to this day
So, you found traditional systems limited. You "transcended" them, yet you still "support" them? So what you are teaching is unique (you've left other systems). If you are teaching something unique, how is it that you "support" other systems? To me it seems the opposite is true, you use other systems to support what you are doing. You created your own thing, then you use the already established martial arts communities to draw people to your unique thing.

Can you see it from my perspective? It seems like you want the best of both worlds. On one hand you want to say that what you are doing in original, better and different. And on the other hand you are saying that what you do is proven by people like Ueshiba and Takeda, and other "aiki" students can gain from what you are teaching, because it's basically the same thing Ueshiba and Takeda were talking about.

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