Thread: Vantage points
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:44 AM   #164
renshin
 
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Dojo: Renshin Aikido Dojo, Horten, Norway
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
There is another perspective. This perspective is simply "would it be worth my investment of time". So let's say, Dan has some ability that no one else has. He's far better at it than anyone else. But no one knows exactly what Dan is doing, even Dan. No one has taken the time to really investigate what is happening, and understand what makes Dan's approach unique and "better". So you spend lot's of time learning what Dan is teaching you to do, but that's not actually what gives Dan his special ability. You end up wasting lot's of time, doing something that wasn't actually what gave Dan his ability.

This is the problem with "IHTBF". So you feel it, and it's impressive, and you want to do it. How do you learn how to do it? From nothing I've read here I Aikiweb can I ascertain what Dan is doing. When asked specific questions, all one gets in reply are references to Ueshiba, quotes from the Taiji classics, and lot's of talk of how it's been done in "open rooms" or how almost 100% of people now think this is best. These things don't tell us anything that about why "IHTBF" and can't be described in a coherent way.
I understand your concern. And it could have been a valid one, if not for the fact that Dan's method - is in fact - a method. He will show you the effects of it, and then tell you how to train your body and how this works. He knows how it works - and he can explain it.

Personally, I was lucky enough to be at a seminar with mostly people who had done several seminars with Dan already. I was one of a few beginners. So we did a lot of stuff. My brain was fried after 6-8 hours of training each day and there was NO waza. One of the interesting things, though, was that I could feel the effects that Dan had on me, but I could also feel it from others. And I could feel that those who had put in time felt different from the other beginners. Not at the same level as Dan, but definitely something similar.

It reminds me of a seminar with Okamoto sensei, where he did a Fure aiki technique on me. He barely touched my hand, and my knees went forward, making me fall backwards. Then, his senior student (from Japan) did the same to me. It had the same effect, but I could feel his actual movement. Not so with Okamoto - his way was SOOO much smoother and (for me) impossible to detect before he had me.

It's not like you train, train, train and not feel anything, and then suddenly: You're an IP expert. There are small improvements over time, and you test each other with just enough resistance / push / whatever to explore what you have and where your limits are. Then, at some point, you will be able to fight with it. Before that, it take a lot of work and patience. Probably why that 7th dan didn't do anything in public - yet. He might in the future, but he's probably working just as hard as the rest of us, doing the solo work for now.

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
These things don't tell us anything that about why "IHTBF" and can't be described in a coherent way.
Again, if you go to Dan's seminar, it's all there. His method is spelled out. He talks, he demonstrates on and with everyone, he draws diagrams and stick figures on large sheets of paper, he answers questions about everything, he has people touch his body to feel what's going on etc. etc. And did I mention that he smiles and laughs a lot? ;D So there is a method. It can be described. But he doesn't explain it online to everyone and his grandma.

I think it would be very strange for Dan to spend almost every weekend teaching seminars around the world if what he was doing wasn't producing results. I'm not saying everyone will get it - most people won't put in the time and effort needed. And yes, it needs some faith in what you are doing, too. Doesn't everything?

Yours friendly,

K. Sandven

Blog: My Life In Budo

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