Thread: Vantage points
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:13 AM   #11
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,265
United Kingdom
Re: Vantage points

Christopher Li wrote: View Post
I've said it before, but I really don't get the profit motive stuff. I know for a fact that Dan doesn't make much money on this stuff, doesn't run a commercial dojo, and doesn't make a living out of it.

Even if he did, so what? Morihei Ueshiba taught for money - Sokaku Takeda. Kisshomaru Ueshiba, Koichi Tohei, Gozo Shioda, Yoshimitsu Yamada, Mitsugi Saotome, Kazuo Chiba, Hiroshi Ikeda and all the rest taught/teach for money (and a lot more money than Dan ever makes), sold books/videos/t-shirts and whatever and nobody blinks an eye.

And what about the "secrets"?

First of all, I don't think anybody has really spoken about "demonic health problems" (Lee Price mentioned something along those lines, but AFAIK he's never met Dan, and I don't know whose training he's referring to).

I've never signed a nondisclosure agreement.

Many places that I trained at in Japan prohibit basic recording of some or all of what they're doing. You can't even take video or still photos at Aikikai Hombu without special permission.

Morihei Ueshiba did not allow certain things to be filmed, or even seen publicly. Sokaku Takeda was the same.

Sagawa Dojo is the same to this day, as is the Kodokai.

The Ki Society only releases certain materials to their members.

Mitsugi Saotome did the same thing, when he first produced a two-sword video.

Hiroshi Ikeda only sells certain DVD's to people who have attended certain workshops.

Now, in Dan's case you'll have to ask him, but it's certainly not about proprietary information - one of the requirements that he imposed when he started teaching this stuff publicly was that people would not hoard this stuff to themselves.

However, it is very difficult to transmit in any detail over the internet without a common frame of reference.

If you've ever done any tech support over the phone you should know - how hard is it to explain logging into Facebook to your 80 year old Grandmother? And that's a simple technical sequence with discrete, easily describable physical steps.

The last time I tried something similar I had to ask for a screenshot - and they emailed a picture of their monitor taken with a digital camera (a true story!).

As for videos, they aren't much use, and often cause more trouble than they're worth (they don't seem to settly too many arguments around here, do they?). There are a lot of videos out - if watching them got you anywhere then people would already be able to do this stuff.

The acrimony? This stuff isn't new, it's been the subject of acrimonious discussions on the internet for at least 15 years. For most of that time people like Dan and Mike Sigman (if I can dare to mention them both in the same sentence!) were on the receiving end - a lot of that from me, I'm sorry to say.

Well, times have changed, it seems, and those two are no longer speaking alone when talking about this stuff (which should tell you quite a bit, I would think), but it's hard for many people to imagine that they don't really understand the things that they've been training in and teaching for twenty, thirty years and more, that there's much more work to do. That they weren't even close, in many ways.

It's hard for them to take the chance.

But I did...


Dear Chris,
Of course your listed named Aikido teachers charge fees , after all they are full time Aikidoka.I do not think that this is being a bread money men or unworthy. I know personally at least one person on your list who has donated his time and his fee to assist others.I also know that the course fees per person charged by our group are certainly less costly than the price per person at I/P related courses.Now I am not saying that the I/P instructors are overcharging for their services since I have no information concerning the overheads of the course.I am just saying there is a cost differential.The bottom line is that if one wants a product one pays the price,be it a tin of baked beans or an I/P course/Aikido seminar.One has a choice.
As far as video material is concerned I cannot speak for other groups or individuals but all our groups video material are available to all interested parties.In case anybody reading this thinks that sales of this material enables me to enjoy a Brad Pitt lifestyle[I wish ] all monies raised by my efforts go to our group to boost our funds.May I also state that in relation to prices charged by others for dvd material we do not charge an arm and a leg for our stuff?Happy New Year , Joe.
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