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Old 12-26-2012, 07:15 AM   #74
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Re: Multiple attackers, using their idea of what is happening against them

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
This is what the OP stated;
"When I use the word "Aiki" I am describing an ability to understand your attackers mind, physically blend with their physical movement, and letting your attackers spell their own demise"
He does not use the word "evasion" or "moving out of the way.
And neither did I in my first comment. The word "evasion" or as you put it "moving out of the way was introduced by proponents of IP/IS.
OP video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rroRNqBaF4w

My video link of Ueshiba:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98yRuBkUBGQ

Let's start with OPV (OP Video) at the 0:08-0:10 second mark. Evading. Pure and simple. Receiver is actively and purposefully trying not to get grabbed, trying to break free, and trying to misdirect the "attackers" so that they lunge to grab in a place where the receiver isn't.

Look at UV (Ueshiba video) at the 3:10-3:35 mark. Ueshiba enters, Ueshiba wants the attacker to grab him, Ueshiba doesn't evade. The attackers go in various directions because Ueshiba completely controls them through physical contact. Ueshiba does not use misdirection at all.

Now, look at 6:03-6:24. Do you see Ueshiba trying to misdirect his attackers so that they fall into each other? Instead, Ueshiba tosses them left and right through power and control.

I think you should have a conversation with Chis Hein over what he meant by the posted video. Look at what Mary posted:
Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Thank Chris...I especially loved when he pulled up and they ran into each other.
and Chris replied
Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Yeah, I was pretty impressed by that myself!! What a great idea, using their force against them, all the ball carrier had to do was to understand what the attackers wanted to do, and he used their minds against them, effortlessly! This is the kind of thing that makes Aiki, and Aikido so interesting to me!!
So, deceiving someone and evading their attack is "aiki". The receiver used timing to step out of the way from being grabbed and let the two "attackers" run into each other. He deceived them by not being where they expected him to be and evaded their attack. Go back to the Ueshiba video and point out where Ueshiba actually does anything like this.

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
As for differences in interpretation of the term Aiki, some may have a limited understanding of Aiki or mean something very specific with it or seeking only to apply it to a specific goal. Personally I have experienced Aiki over the decades in a much more broader perspective, which have made me look in a different way at other arts, nature-religions like Shinto and nature itself.
If each person tries to come with a clear description of what Aiki to him is, and if each person keeps an open mind then I think it must be possible to discuss it and to inspire each other.

It would therefore be interesting to see more examples of what people view as important or inspiring to them, then just the example that the OP gave.

Tom
About the only two valid arguments in relation to this thread subject would be:

1. Ueshiba in 1935 was still doing Daito ryu and it wasn't aikido.
or
2. Kisshomaru changed the definition of "aiki" and that is what is being discussed.

Now, neither of those will stand up to close scrutiny, but at least they would be valid counter arguments. Otherwise, Morihei Ueshiba had very specific, defined definitions for aiki. It wasn't in a broader perspective.