View Single Post
Old 12-25-2012, 05:18 PM   #70
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Multiple attackers, using their idea of what is happening against them

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
You are contradicting yourself here.
No contradiction at all if you understand what we are saying about aiki - as been mentioned elsewhere by others, simply evading an attack was not what Ueshiba was renowned for and was not what gave him his power; anyone can do that. However, there are those that imply aiki is as simple at that; this approach and viewpoint is what is objectionable. As I said before, IMO evasion is not aiki, has nothing to do with aiki, and is nothing really special that can be found in all martial arts and other athletic activities. If others choose to not look at it that way and are not interested in other viewpoints of aiki, that is fine, but if they present evasion as the one and only aiki, then we will feel obligated to disagree (with detail supporting our position) and let others know that there is another viewpoint for their consideration.

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
This is what you said; "No one in the IP/IS group ever said that moving out of the way was not a valid martial movement; it can be done with or without aiki".

If you seriously mean this, then what could possibly be a valid objection of the IP/IS group against talking about this subject (aiki evasions)?
What is 'aiki evasion'? - i thought we were talking about Evasion being Aiki.

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
What you first called a "valid martial movement that can be done with or without Aiki", you now call external jujutsu movements?
External jujutsu movements are valid martial movements and they can be done with the power of aiki or without; the movement is not the source of aiki.

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
And from this new definition you conclude that the IP/IS group does have objections if on a thread on Aiki web people discuss evations as part of their Aikido curriculum?
Not true, no objection to discussing - evasion and other external movements can be, and should be, part of an Aikido curriculum, but they are just waza.

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
It may not be part of how you or the IP/IS group would like to define Aiki, it is very well possible that you/they have come to a different conclusion.
Absolutely agree with that statement - and that is why we are having a difficult time expressing points because each side hears the term Aiki and applies their own meaning to it; which does not provide for common ground

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
But it should not interfere with the possibility for others to discuss the variations of evasion in Aikido or to compare these with other arts.
Never said they could not - a good example of the no common ground for discussion point mentioned previously.

Greg