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Old 12-09-2012, 03:37 AM   #24
Michael Varin
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 567
United_States
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Re: Kotegaeshi, help please

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote:
Unfortunately, you just discovered one of the major shortcomings of Modern Aikido training: The "ukemi" model. You are trained to give up your center and fall in a specific manner. So, everything is going to work fairly well in the dojo. Everyone gets trained to do this.

If anyone disagrees, then try this and report back:

1. Get a teen wrestler with no aikido experience and try kotegaeshi, allowing the teen to use wrestling experience.

2. Get a BJJ practitioner and do the same.

3. Get a Judo practitioner and do the same.

4. Get a Karate/TKD practitioner and do the same.

5. Get an average Joe/Jane off the street and tell them to try not to comply and try it.

6. Get a Boxer and do the same.

Did any of them fall like a "normal" aikido practitioner? Or did a lot of other things happen?

Now, before you start in on all the rationalizations and excuses and explanations, answer the question on why Ueshiba could get 1-6 to work just fine, why everyone who trained with Ueshiba had to learn their own way of "ukemi" to protect themselves (they weren't taught by Ueshiba to roll and fall), and why this was also the case from the mid-late 1920s on ...

The modern "ukemi" model in Modern Aikido is a big problem.
1 - 6? No problem. I could kote gaeshi people from any of those groups.

I've done aikido for a long time. I've gotten good at what I do.

Did any of those people fall like someone trained in aikido? Do I care? Or could I effect the technique? What are you even asking?

Could Ueshiba really? Have you seen it?

Did taekwondo even exist? I know BJJ didn't, so it's safe to say Ueshiba never applied anything on any BJJ practioner!

How do you know Ueshiba didn't teach ukemi? What is your direct experience with that?

Are you aware of the fact that martial arts like wrestling, judo, BJJ, and MMA used something like the nage-uke model to teach techniques? You must be, right?

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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