tom, may i direct you to this thread http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21943
please read through the posts then we can continue to discuss. btw, i had my hands on Saotome sensei and took ukemi. i had more frame of reference than you think. other folks, proponents of IP/IS, have similar experiences with various high level (as in Ueshiba Sr uchideshi) aikido teachers and other martial arts. their combined experiences are staggering. as i said before, when a bunch of very experienced folks said the same thing, there might be some truth in it, at least one should pause and ponder.
I did notice that thread before, but did not follow it as I did not like the discussion. Since you asked I have read the posts. Where do you want to go to with this?
I never questioned anyones frame of reference. I try to address the issue, the argumentation and not the person. I expect the same attitude from everyone else. I do not ask someone's curriculum vitae on Aikido or any of the other martial arts and I expect the same from others.
I am quite sure that the IP / IS proponents have a tremendous amount of experience. But did you somehow get the impression that I was a beginner?
Suppose I would make a list of my experiences, the teachers that I have trained with, the places where I have studied, the many special things that I have experienced.
Do you think that you then should at least pause and ponder when I say something?
Well, I don't. Pause, ponder and consider might be wise advice for my students in the dojo. But here on the internet it is about argumentation. If my argumentation is wrong then I want people to come up with solid counter-arguments. And if and where I can I will try to do the same.