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Old 10-17-2002, 11:59 AM   #24
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
And Paul, we have clearly defined the parameters of this discussion. We are not replacing words nor circumstances. This is not about anything else besides dojo culture.
Ok. But the first reply was Kevin's post where he talks about his experiences in the military.


Yeah, the 15 minute limit can be a pain sometimes.
Even if you change the setting to a workplace you are responsible for you. If you don't like the environment don't take a job there. If you choose to join a club, a dojo, or take a job somewhere, you are by those very actions stating that you feel comfortable there, no one is forcing you into it. Otherwise you have to speak up and come to an arrangement not just assume that people will know that you don't like how they interact. I mean joining a kayaking trip and then complaining about having to paddle would be a bit asinine wouldn't it?
I'm not saying an individual isn't responsible for their actions.

However, one can and usually does participate in things (dojo/work) without complete information. As an example, I took a job knowing the industry, knowing my pay, even knowing my direct superior, but I didn't know who my co-workers were, their behavior or all the details of what my responsibilities really entailed.

In a joining a dojo, I'm sure no one knows all the people they will train with, or what the instructor is like in all situations (or in the case of a larger school, the behavior of all the instructors), or the implications of all the techniques (I certainly didn't "know" what nikkyo would feel like, or my first breakfall). To a certain degree, we make our choices based on the information we have, knowing it's not a complete picture.

I'm also not suggesting someone shouldn't speak up if they don't feel comfortable with a situation. They should take some type of action, whatever they feel would be best (talk with someone else after class, saying something during the class, leaving that particular class, leaving the dojo, bringing a lawsuit or criminal charges against the dojo/instructor, whatever....) So I don't disagree with you.

Funny you should mention kayaking. My brother works as a kayaking instructor and guide, and there have been times where individual people have had to cut trips short (sometimes folks do bite off more than they can chew and can't paddle for the entire trip). Arrangements are made to accomidate these folks (yes, sometimes that means allowing them not to paddle and be towed by others for a bit). It's pretty darn rare, but it does happen, and it seems to me that's an example of the "culture" changing to fit the individual, isn't it?

In any case, I didn't mean to upset either you or Eric, and I get the impression I have.

Back to Lurking, I suppose....

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