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Old 11-15-2012, 01:19 PM   #47
Tom Verhoeven
Dojo: Aikido Auvergne Kumano dojo
Location: Auvergne
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
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Re: Requirements to demonstrate "IP"?

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
tom have you a chance to look back at some discussion on IP/IS stuffs? first and foremost, IP/IS that we are talking about here isn't a spiritual thing or an attitude thing. It's a body, physical skill thing. since it's a physical skill thing, we would prefer the IHTBF approach first to put folks on the same sort of understanding, before intellectual discussion needs to happen. we have discussed with chris about this last year too. same thing happened. he insisted that he know what IP/IS is and that modern atheletic approaches can be better. we said that his knowledge of IP/Is isn't the same as various folks and we also know what atheletics are about, because we aren't some backass country folks who lived in the wood somewhere in timbuktu. also, we have many folks, i do mean many with lots of experience (again we aren't some country pumpkin who didn't know which end are the head and which are the ass), who went out of their comfort zone and challenged their beliefs, and came to similar conclusion. when a bunch of folks, not one, not two, but quite a few, and many have lots of experiences, said the same thing, you might want to stop and pay attention and learn to listen. when folks kept on arguing, then they get ignore, at least by me. when they stop and went out and experienced first hand, then we have some common ground to start a discussion. even the folks who do IP/IS argued among ourselves, but the arguments weren't about IP/IS, but mostly on the how to practice certain things, why we practice a certain way, and so on. why mike sigman focus on certain things? why dan does things differently from different perspective? why ark focus on the frame and does what he does and how does that works? and so on and so forth. we don't argue about IP/IS idea.

btw, i don't know about other folks, but i never claim to be a gentleman. it's actually the opposite. i kinda prefer the barbarian meself, since the blood of genghis khan flow in me somewhere. every now and then i have the urge to take my horde (two boys) on a plunder and pillage trip to the local grocery. and every time my wife would yell at me to get eggs, milk and bread. i don't understand it. what can you do with eggs, milk and bread? ok, maybe french toasts.
Phi,
When you say that IP / IS is only a body, physical thing you do realize that you are getting your feet into a Cartesian mudpool ? Modern top-athletes are moving away from this kind of thinking. And so are surgeons and biologists. The human body is not a machine. You cannot separate the body from the mind / spirit. Science has moved on since Descartes.

I get your frustration - but don't you think that others on this same forum are just as frustrated with IP /IS proponents as they make a lot of claims without being able to back it up with anything else but "it has to be felt" ? Or how about the IS / IP proponents that dismiss almost every teacher in the world because they do not have it or show it? Names have been mentioned or hinted at that had a major influence on the spreading of Aikido - but now we are suppose to accept that they did not understand it or did not even learn anything from the founder? And this comes from people who have never seen or met the founder, let alone train with him ! How frustrating do you think that is?
I could easily go on and on about the frustrations that are at times - but too often - created by the IP / IS proponents. It drives good people away from what otherwise could be an interesting topic to discuss.

And I think it is possible to discuss IS / IP. Unless IP /IS is something from a sci-fi novel. But if it is human, then it should be possible for other humans to recognize it from their own experiences. They may not fully understand it, but they may have gotten a glimpse of it. As an Aikido teacher I find it important that when this happens I assure my students that they indeed got a glimpse of or even more. I do not understand why IS / IP proponents then on this forum tell people they understand nothing and that the IP / IS proponents are the only ones with expertise. It is cult-like behavior.

It is not about claiming to be a gentleman - it comes with the suit.

Btw, Gengis Khan stayed in his cozy tent with a bunch of half dressed ladies while his men were doing all the bloody work. I on the other hand have the blood of Grutte Pier running through my veins - now that was a warrior!

All the best,

Tom
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