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Old 11-12-2012, 08:17 AM   #11
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,541
United_States
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Re: Mike sigman's internal strength parameters- Have you guys read this; really!

Chris:

I can understand and respect your point of view. Been there. And frankly, yeah, it is all physics. It is all explainable as I don't believe in magic. I can't explain it very well myself, but I've learned a couple things, developed a few minor skills, and find my universe expanding a bit. All this because I got on the mat with a couple of these guys and found that they could do stuff I couldn't even remotely do or deal with in return.

So maybe it is the same stuff you think it is and you're the guy who we should all be training with. I honestly wouldn't dismiss it as a possibility, but, well, I've heard it quite a few times only to see people baffled, confused, flustered, etc. The choice for them has always been to either re-calibrate their ideas or to walk out.

I've seen both.

Unlike some I don't see it as the end-all. I see a vastly larger picture. But larger picture and all I see this stuff as integral and critical. Not that it isn't there otherwise in some respects in some places, but the quality of it varies tremendously. And more importantly the question for me is whether those who can do some of it can transmit it to their students, cause that's what's gonna matter to me.

But sure, it's all explainable because, again, I don't believe in magic. I just don't have a good enough model yet myself to do it. And each guy doing their things seem to have varied nuances to their models even when they use similar words. Which results in variations. But again... None of that means there's nothing there. Or nothing extra.

Chris, you have adopted a position of "convince me why I don't know, convince *me* why I'm wrong.". That's never going to happen and frankly it is foolish to think otherwise. So I'm not going to argue.

In my case years ago I went to some seminars with a local tai chi guy. That left a mark. I come from a lineage that broke off from Ki Society and we focused very strongly on his ki tests. That left a mark. I've subsequently gotten on to the mat with guys like Dan, Toby, Mike and a few others. And played some with students of Angier, Ark, and others. There are some serious ranges of abilities out there, some that seem "magical" to me that aren't just the conventional, fluffy, hand-wavy crap that I hate.

But I've seen this post posted by others many times before. So I doubt it will matter much.

I try very hard not to pre-judge those things I've not felt in person. I go to seminars as a result. I've been to many seminars and classes with highly respect folk only to walk out saying "Meh, not for me.". With those other guys I try to go back whenever I can.

So here's to hoping Howard Popkin makes it out to the left coast one of these days...

Chris, you do what you think is right and I agree quite a bit with many things you've written. Kindred spirit in many ways. Just not on this one.

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