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Old 11-10-2012, 08:17 PM   #87
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Re: The Fear of Power

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
So you believe that the main motivation behind training in Aikido, for the vast majority of people who train in Aikido, is to gain more power?
Yes. I believe that that is naturally the original motivation for the vast majority of people who begin training in aikido and that it largely underlies all subsequently formed motivations. Further, I believe that they are taught that the natural desire to grow strong is somehow "evil" and that this peculiar teaching creates a conflict between their inner motivation and their consciously understood motivations, which consciously supplant their original motivation but cannot replace it at the deeper levels of their personalities. And this peculiarly instilled conflict of motivations weakens the character of aikido and creates a sort of duplicitous, dishonest element in the minds and characters of people so trained.

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I could make that same argument, and say that the main reason people train in Aikido is so that they can better sit in seize.
Sure, you could. It just wouldn't hold water and it wouldn't fly, either. You might get some people to subscribe to it, but only if they also have that crossed motivation and have adapted with that subtle inner dishonesty which both seeks something and denies seeking it at the same time.

If they wanted to sit in seize, they could learn cha no yu, shod or many other pursuits that don't involve throwing people around (or appearing to). Why did they choose the one pursuit that emphasizes throwing people around (or pretending to)? And why the one that gives black belts, which are internationally recognized as signs of power?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Aikido is one of the few martial arts, and perhaps the only widely available martial art that does a lot of work from the seiza position. Everyone denies that this is why they are really training in Aikido, but why else train in this art that is all about seiza, it's because they want to sit more properly in seiza. They can see how well Ueshiba sat in seiza, Ueshiba was always talking about how important suwari waza is, and he looked so good sitting there. People pretend that this isn't the reason they train in Aikido, but otherwise why would they train in Aikido, the most seiza filled martial art. If they would simply supplement their Aikido training with some tea ceremony, they could get what they really want. Which is the reason they train in Aikido in the first place. Because Aikido is all about seiza.

That argument hits most of the main points you hit in your power argument. So is seiza the main reason people train in Aikido?
No. It's the throwing-around of other people in dynamic poses and, of course...those black belts!

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
If people really want power, why train in Aikido at all?
Because real aikido, from the root--from Ueshiba and his uchi deshi (especially those from Ushigome)--is hellaciously powerful and it develops incredible power, much unlike the drivel that is churned out by most of the modern "aikido community" which is the main source of the myth that seeking power is inherently evil.

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
People who train in MMA, firearms and survival have much more civilian power, in terms of physical ability than any Aikido person who is not training in those things.
Well...that's a shallow view of what aikido is, you know. What did Mochizuki tell Abe? "What do you think Aikido is? Do you think it involves only the twisting of hands?" He said, "We use kicking techniques or anything else. I even used artillery. Martial arts, guns and artillery are all aikido."

I, myself, have not used artillery. But I was uchi deshi to this man who was deputy governor of three provinces in Mongolia during WWII. That's the kind of power produced by aikido. Of course...the modern "aikido community" probably won't' give you much along those lines. So your impressions are understandable. But Kevin Levitt has used artillery, I'm pretty sure, so his perspective on aikido is probably different from yours. It's a principle that underlies all human conflict and power is at its root.

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Doctors, Lawyers, and politicians have much more social power than any Aikidoka who isn't one of those things.
Is it wrong for them to have such power? Power simply is what it is and in any situation that calls for any given kind of power, it's better to have more than needed than less.

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Members of the military have more military power than any Aikido person who is not in the military.
Not all of them. A new graduate of basic training, a cook, a clerk or a supply corporal probably doesn't have much physical training. They may have more authority within the military than any non-military person, but why is it that so many martial arts guys have trained the Navy SEALS? I think it really depends on the military man and on the martial artist.

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Aikido is really pretty low on the list of things to give one power, if power is what you are seeking. It's really a much better way to learn how to sit more properly in seiza.
Again, Chris, they kind of aikido you have learned from the "aikido community" you're involved in has apparently been pretty low in capacity, so I can see how you might think that way. I can only tell you that my aikido has been MMA from 1976 on. It's more than twisting hands and stepping. It is an art of global power. Maybe I should have realized...well, some of the readers here do have a pretty deep perspective, so I'm sure my efforts are not entirely wasted.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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