Quote:
David Orange wrote:
I'm not reasoning circularly. I'm looking at all the people I've known in aikido and all I've heard about. I can understand people not being drawn to power if they didn't get their impressions of aikido from Ueshiba, but if they got them from Tissier or Seagal??? Surely you're not saying they saw that and thought that aikido was any kind of peaceful art?
Years ago, I was training on a kata with one of my students and someone passing by shouted, "Stop trying to hurt that guy!"
I think most people, seeing aikido by Tissier or Seagal would, with no other experience, think that aikido is extremely violent. Surely, few untrained people could take Tissier's technique without injury.
So...if they see Tissier or Seagal as their first glimpse of aikido and decide, from that, to join...??? What is their motivation?
More than almost anyone I can think of, except perhaps Gozo Shioda, those two project a feeling of "power over others."
But if I'm wrong, what are people seeing there that motivates them to join aikido?
I am sure it is the allure of power, and it is only after they get involved that they are indoctrinated with the idea that they are not seeking power, which immediately begins corrupting their practice with conflicted motivations and more than a trace of hypocrisy.
What do you think I'm missing?
David
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1 People see Ueshiba's power and are drawn to the art.
2 People deny that they seek power.
3 People at heart are really seeking power because they practice Aikido
That is circular reasoning.
That in itself is a fallacy, but I added a few counter-arguments. For some reason you just skipped them. You did respond on my counterargument that people in general do not know Ueshiba and have not seen any of his demonstrations. You tried to replace Ueshiba's name with that of others like Tissier. But the core of your premise is based on what you say about Ueshiba's power. It weakens your whole premise if you are willing to accept any other name.
It would then become something like "people are drawn to Aikido because of its great power". It seems to me that a lot of other martial arts look powerful or even more powerful - why would people choose in particular for Aikido if it is only about power?
My other arguments still stand and I am not going to repeat them here.
The problem with simplistic ideas is that they quickly turn into a circular reasoning. I think everyone is familiar with Freud's circular reasoning; every @ or # or 69 is about sex and that is just my qwerty keyboard.
Your notion that Ueshiba's power is the only thing that draws people to Aikido and that people who have other reasons are in denial is a similar kind of reasoning. Even if it was true, it would just be a tautology.
Tom