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Old 10-24-2012, 09:29 AM   #288
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI

Edit:
Oops you posted while I was typing. Lets leave it for discussion then


Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Thanks for taking the time to examine the article and I appreciate the attempt to cross-reference it with a good account of IP/Aiki. I've never trained with Alexander Sensei or his main teacher, but from other teachers associated with him, I get the impression that the "using his own body movement to merge" part is the deployment of a forged aikido body, and that in itself is done according to the principle called awase (aka: musubi). I think the connected training for the deployment of kokyu-power, along with it's tanren is the issue some IP/Aiki practitioner have .
It would help if
1. Those supposedly forging an aikido body could display a body quality that was unusual and dynamically stable, instead of being so easy to take apart by...
2. Those studying tanran to make a bujutsu body like Ueshiba did.

Then there would be no debate would there? Why is there a debate? Very simple answer that no one wants to talk about. The first group can't hold up under testing and prove their own statements. The second group can.

Quote:
If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions about the body you described (that does not require moving because everything is infused with the AIKI). If someone throws a punch at you, do you move? If someone cuts at you with a bladed weapon, do you move? If you do move, how disconnected can your movement be from the body, minds and intent of the attacker(s)?

Regards

Carl
My repeated answer below

Quote:
Aiki and awase
Aiki as a concept prior to awase is for building a bujutsu body. Noted by Takeda, Sagawa, Ueshiba, Kodo, Tokimune, Tohei, Shirata, And many ICMA masters as well.
The dynamic balance of forces within you creates the immovable body that is placed in a -theoretically- invincible position, which is aided *by* that immovable body in motion. This is accomplished partly through other causal effects; like lack of slack leaving no telegraphing, and neutralization of forces creating movement and cancellation of resistance in an opponent not otherwise capable of being achieved through normal motion and a normal body type... which leads to a more fully realized concept of.... awase.
I simply don't know how many times it has to be repeated that we are also talking about movement.
I'll try
"We are also talking about movement."
"We are also talking about movement."
"We are also talking about movement."

The continuing refrain is that aiki happens in you BEFORE you make awase. Awase can involve aiki but also can just be "fitting in" like most every other martial arts does. AIki in you first changes the interaction between two people at many levels, and cause them to be more reactive to the person with aiki. This is partly done through the person exhibiting a connected body, and partly done through using it to make aiki happen at every contact point (even before the contact point happens) by using that connected body in such a way that there is a "no force" effect happening every time they touch. No force, applied....even when they land on their ass with what looks and feel like a direct throw. No force...begins within you and is carried with you in movement without your needing to connect to him, that happens after or not at all, and you can be the aggressor, or meet or be defensive. Hence the three degrees of sen.

Dan

Last edited by DH : 10-24-2012 at 09:31 AM.
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