View Single Post
Old 10-11-2012, 03:34 AM   #35
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
Offline
Re: Who's missing out? (On "Promotion and advertising" rhetoric)

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
No, you have divided it that way, since your first post. I just put names on the two groups you described and further delineated the characteristics of each group.

Of course...in martial arts, only one of those groups is even considered to exist. The other is not even noticed.

It was how O Sensei did things. And I'm way more artist than scientist in my approach to life.

The IP side works only from O Sensei--not from Kisshomaru or forward. That, which you represent, if anything, is "modern" aikido. The "scientific" side is "old" aiki.

Well, that and the lack of aiki in their bodies....and maybe the hats they choose...

No. Your "traditionalists" are rooted in the 1960s or 70s.

My traditionalists are from the 1930s and 1940s. Guys like Mochizuki and Shioda didn't follow along doing what they were told. If there was a secret to be had, they made sure to get it. It was the people who came along following Tohei's split who began losing the way.

Well, there's your problem, right there. "The presentation" is in your perception. The "scientific" cohort does not put this out as something "to make you feel like you are lacking and therefore need to have."

The noise from the scientific cohort is endless iterations of "EUREKA!" It's positive excitement and JOY at a fantastic discovery that was there all along, like gravity or displacement of water.

You hear the noise and look in and people say, "Look what we have discovered!"

And you say, "I already know that. I do all that."

Oooohhhhhh.

So your pride in your own understanding leads you to disrespect people who know something you've never glimpsed and when they bounce you out, you start hearing the "EUREKA!" differently, through a wounded ego, and when you can't get in any other way, we get passive-aggressive threads like this from you.

Really? Poltergeist?

What if I can keep my place and drive a big guy even further across the room than that, with just as little movement?

Would you consider that "poltergeist-like"?

Is that the kind of "invisible" power you can produce?

It's just one expression of the kind of energy-sourcing that creates aiki.

But your problem has really been two-fold. By that I mean that there are two groups here that give you most of the grief you get. Other groups provide some peripheral grief, but let's just look at the two main ones.

Traditionalist aikidoka
IP/IS aikidoka

The traditionalists who believe that aiki is external "blending" with the external movement of an attacker's body, see you in the Golden Center Aikido videos and protest vehemently because it appears that you are literally "selling" something as aikido that definitely is not real aikido. I am among this group as, I believe, is Henry Ellis Sensei. And, truth be told, pretty much everyone on here with a few years of serious aikido experience, even in the "general art" group, seems to think that you're presenting a corrupted practice without even knowing it.

You respond by saying that you're teaching ki and principles. Traditionalists wonder, "Why didn't Ueshiba do it that way, then?" Most of them are just too polite to criticize you, but Mochizuki Sensei would not have hesitated and you see a similar spirit from Ellis Sensei.

However, with your claims to be teaching "ki," you step into the IP/IS field and even declare that you can do what Uehsiba did. We would like to see that on video. And I do count myself also among this group that knows that ki development and use is not as you describe it and believe that while selling a particularly corrupt outer form as aikido, you're also selling a meaningless explanation of "ki" and unsound ways of developing it.

Meanwhile, you're constantly taking the IP/IS people to task for failing to grasp your unique approach to the art as "the same" as what they're doing.

Problem is, it's not.

And you get flak from both sides, but you seem to credit all your grief only to the IP/IS group, maybe because more than a few of us fall into both groups--enough IP/IS to know you're on the wrong trail entirely; and enough "regular" aikido to know that you're not teaching that right, either. So it seems like it's all IP/IS people who object to your presentation, but it isn't. It's IP and it's Tradition. The Modern Aikido side places niceties above the qualities of the arts.

But the fact that you see everyone's excitement and joy at finding IP/IS and interpret it as "promotion" intended to make you feel "that you are missing out or less than" just shows that the problem starts with you. You want to be included, of course. Everyone wants to be included. But we all experience rejection at times in life because we want the group's respect on our own criteria rather than the group's, even while stepping on its truths and insulting the individuals involved.

Instead, why don't you consider listening to what the IP/IS side is really saying? Why don't you find out what they've seen that has impressed them so much?

David
No, no two groups mentioned by me thanks. Also I never describe anyone as traditionalist. So you may carry on doing so but don't include me in that line of reason.

IP works only from Ueshiba and not from Kisshomaru forward? That 'old' aiki maybe.

What I represent? By your conclusions and assertions on such I see you have no idea in that respect.

My pride in my understanding wounded? Nice philosophy and personal assertion. However, way off the mark once again. I like others uereka moments, I share their joy.

What if you do stay in one place and send someone flying with minimal movement. Obviously that means a great deal to you so go for it. What would I think about it? Not much.

Can I produce that kind of power? Yes, it's no big deal.

Nice of you to explain my 'problem' too. So many assertions you make which are not true, interesting.

I take IS/IP folk to task for failing to understand my unique approach as 'the same' as what they are doing? Totally false.

Your experiment with the wall in your video reminds me only of a similar thing I did twenty years ago.

Similar with regards to experimenting with power but totally different in respect to the 'aiki' you use.

Lastly I will repeat that promoting and sharing what you do or 'aiki' folks do is welcomed, liked, enjoyed by me. That means your assertions are way, way askew.

Now, let me reverse everything you conclude and only then do I see a more pertinent scene.

I understand the many different ways and approaches taken by various styles and groups within the Aikido sphere. I understand such 'aiki' folk doing their thing. I can enjoy watching all forms of aikido. I have been to various places with people and watched various ways and whilst many of those I went with either came away complaining how rubbish it was I myself enjoyed it. I enjoy.

Great power? Unusual power? Something I and others have been demonstrating for years. From the 'aiki' you talk about? No.

So I can describe and accept and understand what this 'old' aiki is about and tell others quite clearly what it is you and the 'aiki' folk do. I can present it as it is and present it to others in a good way.

Therefor if someone came to me looking for such a thing I would know who to send them to or refer them to. As I've said before, it's all good.

On the other hand you my friend can not I believe do the same regarding what I do.

I listen to what these IP/IS folk say and see and understand that they are impressed.

So the scene is very, very simple. I enjoy all forms of Aikido. Those who don't don't understand me.

Peace.G.