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Old 09-26-2012, 07:10 PM   #84
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: Sumo: light vs heavy and IS?

Chris Hein wrote: View Post
You've got to look at this from my perspective. I am pretty sure that I know what you're talking about. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. If what you are describing is on the video you posted I would describe that as chinese internal. I'm sure that Ueshiba was interested in and trained in this type of movement (this is one of the reasons I trained in it). But I believe it is only a part of what he was doing. He was also interested in training in koryu weapons and jujutsu. He was also interested in spiritual study/action. All of these things made up his art, Aikido. I don't believe he was only talking about the IP aspects of his training when he spoke of Aikido-or Aiki for that matter..

I understand that your main interest is internal, but that's not the whole of Aikido. My offer to peacefully meet with you next time you're in California still stands. Barring you meeting with me I'd rather not hear any more about my lack of understanding of IP. As you yourself often say, you don't know until you've felt them.
I have looked at it from your perspective, Chris. For decades.
Your responses to Chris and me and others over the years don't really discuss internal strength, they discuss external principles. Which is why the OP vid was discussed soley as external principles. It's all anyone really knows and can discuss... and then it was "stamped" as IS.
You keep bringing in the conversations and saying you get it and can do it. So...I, like everyone else...watched your videos.
Secondly we have entered into so many discussions about it that your descriptions have been laid out. They are unrecognizable to me as anything internal, instead they are Chinese internal art principles. Which have nothing at all to do with internal strength. In and of themselves they make some damn good jujutsu. But they are taught to westerners in Taiwan specifically to teach them decent martial arts, but also to prevent them from getting the goods.

You can read story after story about some of the "famous" CMA guys in Taiwan who don't have it, but who can fight really well. Its common knowledge among certain people. As one masterclass guy was fond of saying about a well known ICMA fighter who was all external. "He impresses all the foreigners, which is good, it keeps them from coming here and bugging me."

There are certain aspects of internal movement that are obvious and transparent. When someone doesn't have's in your face. It is inescapable.
So for many who have actually felt those with internal power not internal martial arts waza and principles...The one overriding argument is that when someone is connected..anyone....there are certain tells. They move with a certain basic tenent of connection that is unaviodably obvious or absent.

People who are connected respond to load a certain way. It drives people absolutely nuts when I say it....but I have never been wrong about it. And once I felt the guy or others was settled. This is as true of Menkyo's as it is in BJJ all stars. Center and connection cannot be hidden nor can it be pretended. People can be great at their art, or great fighters. None of which is a qualifier for IS or aiki.
It's just...the way it is.
As LCD says "You cannot pretend dantian, you will be found out."

When you suffer from lack of connection certain things happen when you:
Encounter load
Gradually fail against load and move
Move someone else
Move someone you really cannot move and certain things happen to you (see the above)
And those are just basic at the start tells.
You see it.
Then the more advanced stuff comes into play....

This isn't difficult to understand from a martial arts perspective.
If someone claims to be a shihan in this or that art...all you have to do is watch him move right? You know if he is moving in accord with expected attributes of a given art. At a point things he either fits his skill level or doesn't. Guys watch vids and comment on stuff like that....all the time. Its the same with someone claiming to have internal strength or aiki.

Barring you meeting with me I'd rather not hear any more about my lack of understanding of IP. As you yourself often say, you don't know until you've felt them.
I didn't say you had to feel them. Someone else said that. I do agree that certain things do have to be felt, but not all. And the most basic are obvious.

Last edited by DH : 09-26-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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