first of all on my choosing the word abusive, to me the situation i saw fitted that a perosn of authority purposely inflicting pain to those beneath him, with the underlying promise that if they take the pain then he'll teach them more. this is just me idea not a dictionary defininition and i apologise if anyone is sensetive to that particular word
Adam the training you descride doesn't sound rough, and you made a couple of references to the lack of pain you feel during techniques, that is my point. hard trianing is ok but not intentional hurting people when you have them at your mercy there is no real learning or teaching going on at that point.
to refer to these people as tough or strict teachers i also feel is incorrect. being tough or strict implies that you have a set of rules and stict rigidly to them, or you have high exacting standard of your students. how does locking people till they scream acomplish this? and in the story i stated above, a smaller you beginner girl what mistke could she have purposely done to bring out this strctness.
i have had another teacher who once you got to a certain level would throw you progressively harder as you went up the grades to continuely test your ukemi and i think that is more correct. however this teacher took no pleasure in locking people up hard.
Yeah, nothing bothers me more than injuring a subdued person.
While I frequently train in non-afiliated dojo as a guest...I have many friends that simply will not train with people they don't know, or haven't been vetted, for the simple reasons of the apathetic, ignorant, and incompetent martial artists out there.
I certainly don't shirk away from a group of people training simply because there is the occasional injury during training...as long as that injury isn't due to carelessness, sadism, or unsafe practices. For one to grow, I believe there has to be at least some element of risk present...but lets mitigate that as best we can, from the viewpoint that we are doing a martial art.
My Yoshinkan teacher frequently preaches that pain compliance is the lowest form of technique in aikido. I like training with people who train towards this as it allows for a strong, fast, and robust training environment. I like training with people that, when they apply nikkyo to me, I briefly loose vision in a burst of white light and don't know how I got to the ground...but there is no real pain in my wrist. Another good litmus test I use to evaluate my training partner is if they can execute a very strong hijishime without hurting my elbow. But teachers that injure students to satisfy ego bother me...if your uke can't handle a certain level of technique...its proper to be sensitive to that. Perhaps push them a little more than they are used to, in order to help them grow, but certainly be able to evaluate what 'too much' is. Perhaps some teachers have that intent but simply are not proficient enough to do it (again, my issue with young dojo cho).
While we are on pet peeves, I also have an issue with uke that grunt and cry and make all sorts or spectacular noises and motions to make their teacher look powerful when being thrown. I find it disrespectful, silly, and distracting in that it is non-conducive to teaching the actual technique....taking focus from the teacher and placing it on the noisy uke.