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Old 08-15-2012, 03:46 PM   #79
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: ki testing...emphasis on both uke and nage getting stronger

Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
Going back to the earlier discussion of 'testing to the point of failure', I guess I don't understand the value or purpose of never having something 'fail'? How can you know where the point you 'fail' even is unless you play around the edges and occasionally go there so you can clearly see the difference between what action of yours leads to success vs what action leads to failure?

I get the motive behind practicing success much more often than failure, because practice makes permanent and you want to build the habit and muscle memory of doing it right. So, yeah, you want loads and loads of successful practice if you can.

But without ever seeing what _doesn't_ work, how can you really understand what does? They exist in contrast to each other... to me it seems too much like trying to read print but the print and the page are the same colour -- how do you know the shape of the print and what information it contains if you have nothing to contrast it with?

To give the word 'failure' so much emotional baggage seems to me sad and potentially damaging... it's just information and need not have any 'bad' feeling attached to it unless you choose to put it there. If you shut yourself off from information then IMO that's no good...
I would agree completely.
Naturally your admonition of playing the edges after making a success of something is admirable. As one person just reminded me on the phone....we have never seen an Aikido teacher-to include over a dozen shihan- be capable of surviving or successfully pulling off our first warm up exercise, much less any real stress. That brings us back to the OP and this notion of Uke/ nage getting stronger.
Since 1,100 of us have never seen a shihan 6th dan or 52 go dans succeed...I was wondering just what the heck the OP meant?
I have seen the videos of many of these ki people, so I know how weak these people are-hence the ki wars, so I was asking what this notion of stronger really meant?
Add to that stronger against who?
Stronger for what?
Some chose to be presumptuous and assume I meant MMA. Fighting was not my point, but rather serious stress testing.
But again, as was pointed out to me, we have never seen any of these people pull off even a minor exercise we do, so I am not talking about going to even our medium level testing, much less advance work or actually knowing how to fight with it.
So again who is getting stronger with what?
Against who?
Doing what?

Our model
Start cooperatively
Gradually raise the bar
reach a point of sustaining yourself against solid muscular force
start over
Soft power to soft power, learn to change the change with aiki. If your ki is weaker you lose.
Pressurize with grappling /MMA until you can fight with it freely.

If this notion of "everyone is supposed to be a success" were true doesn't that lead you back to zero? It sure as hell isn't budo, or any form of Aikido that; Ueshiba, Shirata, Shioda, Mochizuki, Tomiki, Inue, or Tohei was involved in. It's just going to fail against anyone who practiced a budo.
It always has and it always will. Some just want to be recognized as having equal worth when they couldn't remain vertical on a mat.
What's up with that?
Graham says "Give everyone an "A" for trying."
No thanks...I want people who can remain vertical against a capable martial artist.

Last edited by DH : 08-15-2012 at 03:50 PM.